I used to correspond regularly with a German music lover between 1996 and 2003 and he was of the opinion that both Elgar and Vaughan Williams were composers of genius and the highest international standing, he also thought very highly of Tippett and certainly wasn't dismissive of Bax or Bliss. The one British composer he seemed to think was overrated was rather surprisingly Britten, whose music he often described as something along the lines of 'rather thin'.
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I thought Karajan didn't programme more British music as he realised others could do it better. I'd love to see where K made that remark about EE - K wasn't above making "jokes".Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View PostKarajan is believed to have regarded Elgar as second-rate Brahms.
So the great man wasn't always right.
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Originally posted by Beef Oven View PostHolst was German anyway
... mind you, aren't most English people?[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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Speak for yourself, I happen to shave my arm-pits!Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
... mind you, aren't most English people?Comment
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Quite right: my apologies to all those of Scandinavian &/or French (&/or other) descent who may have felt slighted by my previous comment.Originally posted by Beef Oven View Post
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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Holst was not. His great-great grandfather emigrated to Britain with his family in 1802 from Riga. The family had Swedish, Baltic and Russian forebears. There may have been some German, but it is not so easy to identify. At best, the Baltic connexion represented one eighth of Holst's background.Originally posted by Beef Oven View PostHolst was German anywayComment
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Oh yes he was! Holst's great grandfather, Matthias von Holst was an ethnic German, pretty easy to identify I'd say.Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
Baltic connexion? Are you saying that Holst was 1/8 Baltic Methodist? Interesting.
P.S. You really look like George Butterworth.Comment
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It has been noted before. Uncanny, isn't it?Originally posted by Beef Oven View Post
(As to Holst's 'Germanity' or otherwise, neither Wikipedia, Michael Short or Imogen Holst are as confident as you, giving 'Scandanavian' origin. His grandfather was certainly born in Riga. But what does it really matter? That area has been Swedish, Russian, Prussian and independent in the last 200 years.)Comment
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Many ethnic Germans in these areas in the 18th & 19th centuries, including Holst's great grandfather!Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
Yes, I am more confident than Wikipedia!
And yes, what does it matter!?Comment
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As the youth say these days: wtf?!???!Originally posted by Beef Oven View Post
"...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
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No doubt... Very happy for you &c. &c. Reading what came before and after, it just seemed a compete non sequitur...Originally posted by Beef Oven View Post
"...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
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I don't care for your patronising comment about being very happy for me etc etc.Originally posted by Caliban View PostNo doubt... Very happy for you &c. &c. Reading what came before and after, it just seemed a compete non sequitur... Comment
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This is the sort of thing I have found this website so interesting for. This short series of exchanges made me re-read (or rather, speed-read) Imogen Holst's biography of her father, with the result that I've had a really enjoyable few hours. It's certainly true that various Holsts worked in Germany, but Imogen says on page 1 (talking of Holst's father, Adolph) to "Adolph's Swedish grandfather Mathius had lived in Riga". She later tells of Holst's disappointment at not being fit to enlist in 1914:Originally posted by Beef Oven View Post
"...he found that his name was adding to the complications of life...he did get heartily sick of reading the same apologies for his Swedish ancestors whenever a note of his music was played in public".
But the killer is this (and I really can't recall ever having read this before, which surprises me), about the deed poll by which he got rid of the 'von':
"... and when he had gone through the lengthy proceedings and had paid what he considered an exorbitant sum of money, he discovered that his particular branch of the family never had any claim to the title. A second cousin in the eighteenth century had been honoured by the German Emperor* ..., and the unscrupulous Mathias had calmly borrowed the 'von' in the hopes that it might bring in a few more piano pupils".
*She certainly got this wrong. There was no German Emperor then. I guess she meant the King of Prussia.
This is just the sort of peripheral anecdote I love!Comment
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