Radio3 Live in Concert

[mercia]

I'm wanting to listen to the concerto on iPlayer but it's picking up towards the end
does that usually happen? any way around it?

[Bryn]

I'm wanting to listen to the concerto on iPlayer but it's picking up towards the end
does that usually happen? anyway around it?

Yes. Select Part 1, which actually has the whole of the concert, including the interval feature.

[mercia]

Yes. Select Part 1, which actually has the whole of the concert, including the interval feature.

oh thanks, how odd.

[salymap]

So far I've just heard the symphony whilst having my last cuppa of the day; shall listen to the whole concert later.
It's certainly quite different from Sibelius 1,2,5 and 7, the ones I've heard live the most. No 4 reminds me of a good Sudoku puzzle, it gradually falls into place with the repeated rhythms. JS at his bleakest but perhaps most worthwhile.

[Bryn]

oh thanks, how odd.

Indeed, but it's standard practise.

[Hornspieler]

So far I've just heard the symphony whilst having my last cuppa of the day; shall listen to the whole concert later.
It's certainly quite different from Sibelius 1,2,5 and 7, the ones I've heard live the most. No 4 reminds me of a good Sudoku puzzle, it gradually falls into place with the repeated rhythms. JS at his bleakest but perhaps most worthwhile.

So, the general consensus is one of approval.

Why then, do I shy away from this symphony?

I think it is because, like some of his tone poems, the work is too introspective; conveying a sort of Nordic gloom.

With Nº 6, one senses an attempt by Sibelius to break out from this brooding and "join some of the others" who were composing at this time.
Nielsen, for instance.

No criticism of Kirill Karabits' conducting throughout the evening and if I implied otherwise, I apologise; but really, AM51, I wasn't trying to score points - it's just that you cannot draw a comparison between the interpretation of two conductors, which take place with a different orchestra, in a different acoustic and at a different time.

HS

[Osborn]

To say that HvK put one off the work itself is an odd statement to make supposing one has some sympathy with the piece to start off with. Perhaps that's what is lacking?

It's quite reasonable for you to ask & I'm with HS on this..."the work is too introspective; conveying a sort of Nordic gloom." & Jayne's comment re Robert Layton's initial criticism of HvK that beauty of sound was not perhaps a helpful quality in a performance of No.4. (your descriptive reviews are v good, Jayne)

I find Karajan (particularly in Brahms) a bit like a furtniture dealer who constantly draws your attention to you his immaculate French polish but tells you little about the pieces. (For the same reason I dislike his old fashioned Haydn & Mozart)

[Ferretfancy]

Karajan's mono recording of the 4th with the Philharmonia was much less smoothed over than anything he did later, as was the case with most of his earlier work. I remember it as a very stark performance, and he also made a very fine mono recording of the 6th. To take a different example, have a listen to his first stereo recording of Ein Heldenleben, or his first Shostakovich 10th, they are much more interesting than the re-recordings with the BPO from later in his career.

[Petrushka]

I'm very much with JLW regarding the Sibelius 4. 'Nordic gloom'? Well, yes, I suppose so but don't forget that Sibelius had recently undergone an operation for throat cancer (no laughing matter then any more than it is now) and thoughts of mortality were transmitted into this work. It's not an easy listen but, as ever, repeated hearings pay rich dividends.

Like others, I thought this was a splendid Petrushka with plenty of colour. Ferret, that awful cheerful ending to the piece is the 1945 version, a horrible misjudgement on Igor's part now rarely heard. Like JLW my preference is for the original 1911 version.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I love Karajan's three recordings of the Sibelius #4: Barbi is not alone in his admiration of the 1978 EMI version, and the 1953 Philharmonia had the admiration of the composer himself, who thought that, of the younger generation of conductors, Karajan was the one who had the deepest sympathy and understanding of his Music.

But the 60s BPO is very special for me: with Beecham's completely different 1940s recording, it is the pair that I keep coming back to, always finding new moments of astonishment. The glowering intensity at the end of Karajan's interpretation, bloodied but unbowed, awaiting the dawn with a surpressed fury, just makes it impossible for me to hear anything else for the rest of the day.


BUT: I'm moving away from the point of this thread! I shall listen to the LIVE concert on LA, rather than going on about my record collection. Apologies!

[Hornspieler]

I'm very much with JLW regarding the Sibelius 4. 'Nordic gloom'? Well, yes, I suppose so but don't forget that Sibelius had recently undergone an operation for throat cancer (no laughing matter then any more than it is now) and thoughts of mortality were transmitted into this work. It's not an easy listen but, as ever, repeated hearings pay rich dividends.

Like others, I thought this was a splendid Petrushka with plenty of colour. Ferret, that awful cheerful ending to the piece is the 1945 version, a horrible misjudgement on Igor's part now rarely heard. Like JLW my preference is for the original 1911 version.

It is nearly 61 years since I played the full ballet with the Dolin/Markova company and I do not remember much except for a great relief at getting through it unscathed, so did last night's performance include everything that was in the original ballet score?
My feeling is that it did - in which case, it would surely have been the 1911 version.

HS

[Nick Armstrong]

you cannot draw a comparison between the interpretation of two conductors, which take place with a different orchestra, in a different acoustic and at a different time.

So that's Building a Library, Interpretations on Record &c. &c. out of the window, then...

On the contrary, one can gain great insights into a piece of music by comparing disparate approaches by interpreters, I think.

[EdgeleyRob]

I have been catching up with some of these concerts this last day or so.
I thought the Prokofiev concerto,Mozart Sinfonia Concertante and Petroushka were terrific.
Szymanowski is not for me I'm afraid and I don't get Sibelius although I will keep trying.

[Petrushka]

It is nearly 61 years since I played the full ballet with the Dolin/Markova company and I do not remember much except for a great relief at getting through it unscathed, so did last night's performance include everything that was in the original ballet score?
My feeling is that it did - in which case, it would surely have been the 1911 version.

HS

The announcer/presenter did say that it was the 1947 version which is in a slightly reduced orchestration of the 1911 score. I always like to hear all the drumrolls included as we had last night.

I can recall a fascinating programme on R3 some years ago (Discovering Music?) in which the score was taken apart to astonishing effect. The sheer brilliance of the orchestration especially in the crowd scenes with all that is going on was a revelation. Anyone else remember it?

[mercia]

Discovering Music

DM covered Petrushka here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00fkbzq

though it may not be what you were thinking of