Queen's Jubilee Concert

[Russ]

Queen's Diamond Jubilee river pageant hits a bum note.

Russ

[Simon]

Yawn. Naff article. Typical half-thought-through stuff from the oh-so-politically-correct-multicultural-diversity-equality Duchen who I'm sure would prefer rubbish that nobody liked and then a few bongobongo drums.

She moans about the lack of what she calls world music and then complains that the Indian offering is wrong because it relates to colonialism. History is clearly not her strong point: there aren't any countries connected with Britain with whom we didn't have a colonial relationship with in the past so apart form a few isolated islands and bits of the Far East and S. America, there aren't many places that would apparently suit her. Which then of course begs the question as to why we should want to involve ourselves with performers or music from places completely irrelevant to this country's past... <doh>

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Re #62

Thanks ff. The contrast is stark.
The question is whether it is better for children to read decent children's literature in school, or Dennis the Menace. Few teachers would disagree on the preferred choice, but in the case of music, so many simply give in to what they perceive to be what the impressionable young children want.

[ahinton]

Yawn. Naff article. Typical half-thought-through stuff from the oh-so-politically-correct-multicultural-diversity-equality Duchen who I'm sure would prefer rubbish that nobody liked and then a few bongobongo drums.

She moans about the lack of what she calls world music and then complains that the Indian offering is wrong because it relates to colonialism. History is clearly not her strong point: there aren't any countries connected with Britain with whom we didn't have a colonial relationship with in the past so apart form a few isolated islands and bits of the Far East and S. America, there aren't many places that would apparently suit her. Which then of course begs the question as to why we should want to involve ourselves with performers or music from places completely irrelevant to this country's past... <doh>

I'm afraid that I find it hard to disagree with anything that Ms Duchen writes here. If that's the best that whoever thought this up can do, Britain ought to be ashamed of itself. I don't know quite what you mean by a "colonial relationship", but why should anyone be considering that long after the "British Empire" - even as understood at the time of the present Queen's accession - has sailed off into hstory - and not a history of which to be especially proud, either. You avoid mention of the youth brass band and the context of music education cuts in which she places it; don't you care? - and do you think that this is OK? or somehow undeserving of comment in the particular context concerned? Most importantly of all, it's what will be left out of the event that's an even more glaring indictment than what's actually in it; Britain's symphony orchestras represented by a bunch of deps performing while the remainder of one of them performs at Glyndebourne? Britain's living composers represented by a clutch of movie/television writers, fine as they are, at the expense of Goehr, Birtwistle, Max Davies, Payne, McCabe, Matthews × 2, Holloway et al (of whom the first three are knights of the realm, for what that may or may not be worth in terms of contextual significance)? Why so little recognition of earlier major British composers, including past Master of the King's/Queen's Music, who were active during the Queen's lifetime? And as for foreign countries that are perceived to have some kind of "special relationship" with Britain, why India in particular? (unless someone's hoping to use it as a kind of marketing exercise in the hope of being able to borrow money from it); at least we'll all be spared Elgar's Crown of India, so it could have been worse, I suppose!

I think that the article and other criticisms of the "musical" input into the Diamond Jubilee events illustrate all too painfully that, if this is the best that anyone can come up with for it, the Queen would be better off enjoying a day's peace and quiet at Sandringham.

I am not a Republican, but I do know quite a few such who have no wish whatsoever to see the British monarchy disappear until after the present Queen's death and of whom three have expressed to me the view that what's being mounted for her Diamond Jubilee would be laughable if only it actually had a funny side to it but that, whichever way one looks at it, it is, in the main, an insult to the Queen's intelligence; whilst I understand (though my understanding may not be entirely correct) that the Queen is by no means as fond of music as were her late mother and sister, there's surely no need to assume that what's being proposed should pander to perceived public choices rather than do what it's supposed to do - i.e. celebrate the 60th anniversary of the reign of a most remarkably loyal and duty-encumbered public servant. Shame!

[Prommer]

Can someone not get a whoopee cushion and put it under the flatulent Duchen, and pronto? What a dreary right-on she is, churning out the same rubbish to get a rise from her readers. Peter Simple, anyone?

I do see that the music programmed is a bit Classic FM, but hey, a bit of indulgent naffness will hurt no one. But the idea that it is slighting our multi-faith communities is, er, in a very real sense, bollocks.

I expect she detects the hand of Prince Philip etc etc

[Simon]

Re #62


The question is whether it is better for children to read decent children's literature in school, or Dennis the Menace.

I disagree. It is better for children to read everything they can get their hands on, including comics (within obvious limits of age-related acceptability).

The most balanced adults come from balanced and secure children, who have had a wide range of experiences and been allowed to learn from all of them. (Which is partly why our politicians and senior governmental leaders so often screw things up so badly - but that's another story!)

[Simon]

... what's being mounted for her Diamond Jubilee ... is, in the main, an insult to the Queen's intelligence; ... there's surely no need to assume that what's being proposed should pander to perceived public choices rather than do what it's supposed to do - i.e. celebrate the 60th anniversary of the reign of a most remarkably loyal and duty-encumbered public servant.

You make a very good point here, AH, and I do, on reflection, think that the programming could be much better. The problem is that we would all suggest different things, and so I think that they can't win, really.

Leaving Duchen's silly comments aside - and Prommer is surely spot-on when he points out above that this is simply right-on stuff aimed at a certain readership - the question is one of balance, isn't it? Now, I agree that they haven't got it right, and that they've gone too "populist". The "people" could take a more serious stuff, done expertly - people can, in my experience, appreciate excellence even if they don't understand it fully, like me with, say, engineering. But there has to be something that will connect with the musical experiences of the majority, not just of those of us who habitually turn on Radio 3.

You mention various 20thC composers. The odd bits of "music" that I've heard by Birtwistle, Davies and Tippett I have nothing but scorn for. So if I were to choose my list of music - which would include Gibbons, Weelkes, Arne, Purcell, Handel (have to have it, I think!), Sullivan, Elgar, Stanford, Parry, RVW, Howells and Britten, along with the best of BritPop and especially a tribute to the other Queen and Freddie (arguably the greatest pop artist of them all) - would you and your friends be happy?

[Nick Armstrong]

No. It's more than that. If Alfie Boe and Lang Lang were not so popular with the Classic FM/ Radio 2 audience, I can pretty much guarantee that they would not attract a fraction of the derision that we see on these boards. It's really all rather depressing.

Pee for piffle...

[Nick Armstrong]

Can someone not get a whoopee cushion and put it under the flatulent Duchen, and pronto? What a dreary right-on she is, churning out the same rubbish to get a rise from her readers. Peter Simple, anyone?

It's ironic, whatever you think of her views (and I think they have the mark of Pee upon them), that her other half actually plays in the LPO: see para 2 here - http://jessicamusic.blogspot.com/200...ull-story.html

[MrGongGong]

I fail to see what is "right-on" about thinking of music reflecting wider cultural concerns ???
seemed to work for Mozart (Turkish music) , Debussy (Javanese) , Britten (Gamelan also) etc etc
bigoted ignorant comments about "bongo bongo drums" are worthy of nothing but derision ............

[Chris Newman]

It's ironic, whatever you think of her views, that her other half actually plays in the LPO: see para 2 here - http://jessicamusic.blogspot.com/200...ull-story.html

Although he has with others been suspended by the LPO until June.

[Nick Armstrong]

Although he has with others been suspended by the LPO until June.

Ah yes, forgot about that.

[ahinton]

You make a very good point here, AH, and I do, on reflection, think that the programming could be much better. The problem is that we would all suggest different things, and so I think that they can't win, really.

Of course that's true, but all I would ask is not that what I might like to be chosen actually gets chosen (I don't even have an opinion on the entire Thames trip in the first place) but that some serious thought be put into making such choices if the end result is expected to be taken seriously.

But there has to be something that will connect with the musical experiences of the majority, not just of those of us who habitually turn on Radio 3.

But what are these experiences? Who determines what they may or will be and when? And for whose benefit is this event being designed?(!)

You mention various 20thC composers. The odd bits of "music" that I've heard by Birtwistle, Davies and Tippett I have nothing but scorn for. So if I were to choose my list of music - which would include Gibbons, Weelkes, Arne, Purcell, Handel (have to have it, I think!), Sullivan, Elgar, Stanford, Parry, RVW, Howells and Britten, along with the best of BritPop and especially a tribute to the other Queen and Freddie (arguably the greatest pop artist of them all) - would you and your friends be happy?

You mention six composers active in the 20th century yourself, of whom one was also actually born in that century - but the Queen was born between the two world wars and has knighted those three composers for whom you claim tgo have "nothing but scorn"; just what kind of message would it send to anyone interested in watching/listening to this event if most if not all of the music performed in it were composed before the birth of the Queen? Have a good think about that!

[Flosshilde]

Of course that's true, but all I would ask is not that what I might like to be chosen actually gets chosen (I don't even have an opinion on the entire Thames trip in the first place) but that some serious thought be put into making such choices if the end result is expected to be taken seriously.


But what are these experiences? Who determines what they may or will be and when? And for whose benefit is this event being designed?(!)


You mention six composers active in the 20th century yourself, of whom one was also actually born in that century - but the Queen was born between the two world wars and has knighted those three composers for whom you claim tgo have "nothing but scorn"; just what kind of message would it send to anyone interested in watching/listening to this event if most if not all of the music performed in it were composed before the birth of the Queen? Have a good think about that!

I think that's expecting rather a lot.

[ahinton]

I think that's expecting rather a lot.

Maybe - but no harm done, surely?...