Rapturous applause... Justified?

[Guest]

Two very different prom audiences erupt into rapturous applause at the end of two very different performances. Charles Groves,in 1969, with John Ogden and Jeanne Loriot soloing, conducts the BBCSO in Messiaen's Turangalila before a rapt audience, the engineers having created a crystal-clear sound stage. About a year earlier, James Loughran conducts the same orchestra in Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony. This time the sound is warm and the audience adds a soft broad-band background (and one or two loud coughs). You can hear both on my web-site www.cliveheathmusic.co.uk and you can judge whether the Saturday night audience for the Tchaikovsky enjoyed as powerful an experience as the Wednesday night audience for the Messiaen. I think they did, but then I am a Loughran fan. Apologies if you have read this elsewhere, I am hoping that you all wont mind a little bit of trumpet blowing.

[PaulT]

Hello Clive

Thank you for this post and I for one dont mind at all. Thank you for introducing me to your website which I will peruse over the coming days, I am sure with great interest. Sir Charles Groves and James Loughran are two conductors I have admired over many years. Turangalila is a particular favourite of mine and I do not know Sir Charles' performance.

[pastoralguy]

I am a Loughran fan. Apologies if you have read this elsewhere, I am hoping that you all wont mind a little bit of trumpet blowing.

I've always felt that 'sweaty Jimmy' was a very under-rated conductor whose Brahms symphonies on CFP with the Halle yield to no man IMHO.

[Bryn]

Oh wow! How well I remember that Groves directed performance of Turangalîla-Symphonie. I also attended the morning rehearsals. So very good to be able to hear it again.

Timings:

01 - 00:00'07" to 00:06'27"
02 - 00:06'45" to 00:14'27"
03 - 00:14'38" to 00:19'29"
04 - 00:19'36" to 00:29'31"
05 - 00:29'40" to 00:36'02"
06 - 00:36'16" to 00:45'38"
07 - 00:45'48" to 00:49'38"
08 - 00:49'48" to 01:01'05"
09 - 01:01'07" to 01:06'10"
10 - 01:06'19" to 01:13'43"
ap - 01:13'43" to 01:15'00"

[Chris Newman]

Clive,

Firstly, thank you so much for the Charles Groves Prom. I shall certainly relive the Loughran soon.

I remember that Turangalila so well. The same forces had given it earlier at the Festival Hall whilst Sir Charles Groves, John Ogden and Jeanne Loriot had performed it with the BBCNSO in Manchester a couple of years earlier. I heard the Manchester one on the radio and the two London ones live. The Manchester performance was frenetic, Groves very nervous and seeming to want to get it over with. It was clear he loved the work but was so fast. The next performance saw him relax a little and the Prom one was one of the finest I have ever heard: I would guess some ten minutes longer than the Manchester one. Hugh Bean led the BBCSO like one possessed.

Best wishes

Chris.

[Bryn]

But Chris, he was not that fast at all. It's just that some other conductors started to apply the brakes. Check out the available recordings of early performances:

Désorormière (1950 - first European performance) 63'48", Rosbaud (1951) 69'52", and the first studio recording, a decade later, Le Roux (1961) 75'37".

[ahinton]

At the risk of sounding pedantic, "Ogdon", please!...

[Bryn]

A fair correction in this instance, I think, ahinton. It's all too easily catching. I found myself typing "Ogden" shortly after reading the initial message. I knew it was Ogdon, but ...

[clive heath]

Thanks, Bryn, for the timings, now in place, and to fellow pedant, ahinton. "Loriod" and "martenot" also needed correcting! Works in progress, Death and the Maiden from the Busch Quartet and Haitinks Prom of Mahler 9 .

[makropulos]

Clive, like several other posters, I'm incredibly thrilled to hear this Turangalila again - I was all of 13 in 1969 and remember listening to it at my grandad's house on his (then) rather wonderful radiogram. It was such an exciting experience then and re-hearing it now, Groves does the piece really well. He also gave it in Liverpool a few times (Messiaen was present for at least one of those performances) so I think must have been fond of it. Thank you so much!

[Spatny]

I too was very impressed with this Turangalila and was wondering where I could find other historic classic recordings from the proms.