Radio 3 - Ideas for improvement and the future, a discussion thread.

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  • Suffolkcoastal
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 3292

    Radio 3 - Ideas for improvement and the future, a discussion thread.

    As suggested by some messageboarders from my comments on the Breakfast messageboard below are some of my thoughts and suggestions from the Breakfast messageboard (slightly amended) for possible revitalising/improving R3 and ideas for directions it could take in the future. Please feel free to discuss these and add further suggestions. I would be particularly interested in feedback on point 3.

    1. Anniversary composers, a greater focus on the less known ones, after all the better known ones get plenty of exposure anyway at all times. Let's learn more about them composers such as Krommer, Holmboe, W Schuman, Cherubini have hardly had a look in. With the better known composers lets hear more of the lesser known works in these anniversary years. The coverage of Barber this year for example has been very slanted, four key works the Piano & Cello Concertos, Prayer of Kiekegaard and The Lovers haven't featured once the operas all but ignored and even the masterly Piano Sonata has only featured once I believe, but the Violin Concerto has been considerably overplayed!
    2. Bring back the educational programmes, discovering music is OK but I can remember and have recorded interesting programmes on composers such as Moeran, Harris, Copland and the Russian Symphony as well as some interesting interval programmes about the composers and works in the various concerts, something that has tended to disappear with the decline in live evening concerts. Some of these were programmes and interval features were excellent and contributed greatly to my appreciation of music.
    3. Greater cooperation with networks from other countries, after all we have the occasional EBU broadcasts, live from the Met, and recordings of concerts on TTN. Lets expand that, have some live or (prerecorded from the day before) concerts from around the world and invite presenters and experts from other international networks to make and present programmes and join in with R3 programmes and concerts from the UK. We all know costs are tight at the moment but some sharing of programming and pooling resources and imagination could help stimulate listening and also possibly support some struggling ensembles. Let us not forget that there is a huge amont of scope in this fast moving digital age for working with other musical stations, building and creating new and expanding existing relationships with orchestras artists composers musicologists etc. Radio 3 is still I believe highly respected internationally and should utilise this much more effectively internationally than it appears to do.
    4. Proper schedule planning, do we really need the same work played several times in one week? Accurate playlists that are carefully proof read before publication.
    5. GET RID OF THE STUPID CHARTS! and other ill planned copies of something that Classic FM actually does better.
    6. Breakfast, no problem with shorter pieces and extracts here, but the current tendency to play 3 or 4 works by Mozart and Bach every morning and fall back on Hungarian and Slavonic Dances and the inevitable Debussy and/or Ravel along with inane chatter, endless trailers and silly texting invites smacks of cheap commercial radio. No harm with a little bit of introduction to each piece but keep it simple and informative if necessary.
    7. More programmes on historical recordings, the history of recording and general informed discussion in this field. The BBC has such a wealth of recordings and there are many broadcasters and writers with outstanding knowledge that could be utilised as well as bringing in other experts in relation to point 3 above. This used to play a bigger role in R3 programming and its decline seems to be lamented by a number of MB’s.
    8. General presentation: the website is rather dull and needs regular updating. Advertisements sometimes remain well after the event has happened, the schedules are sometimes incomplete or contain inaccurate information. Do we need big pictures of the presenters above the concert listings? The webiste needs a good overhaul, careful and regular updating and perhaps more information on works, concerts. Regarding presenters, most are at least passable though one or two are not suitable, and some need to do their homework before presenting concerts. Professional image is very important for a station like R3 and standards should never have been allowed to slip as they have.

    Hope this provides a launching pad for some informative discussion and the development of ideas!
  • DracoM
    Host
    • Mar 2007
    • 12986

    #2
    #7
    Key for me. Bring back CDM.

    Comment

    • doversoul1
      Ex Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 7132

      #3
      Rob read the news from a paper about Radio3 being the first to do something about HD. I wouldn’t say sound quality is not important but I would have thought that it comes after the quality of the programmes. I am NOT saying that Rob picked up this piece of news deliberately. I am saying that the fact that this particular information has been promoted looks (to me) like a good way of diverting our attention from the real issue. Couldn’t they have spent that money to maintain the quality Radio3 once had?

      And THE CHATR. I can’t remember now but did Radio3 give an official explanation as to why this is included?

      It comes down to the question of priority but whose priority?

      Comment

      • Eudaimonia

        #4
        It comes down to the question of priority but whose priority?
        Whose priority? The classical recording industry's priority: as the press release below shows, the chart is all about driving sales. I suppose you could make the case for "boosting the labels to advance the cause of music in Britain" and what have you, but it is what it is. I don't know what kind of agreements they have in place-- but as far as I'm concerned, the record companies should be footing the entire bill for it like a colossal advertisement. If not, they're getting the bargain of the century.

        From the press release dated 29.10.2010:

        Roger Wright, Controller, BBC Radio 3, says: "This is the podcast for any music fan who wants to keep an eye on the most popular new classical CDs making an impact across the UK and is a breakthrough in offering listeners complete tracks to enjoy wherever they are and whatever device they're listening on. We have worked together with the classical recording industry on this initiative and we know that it will bring to a wider audience the new releases that have captured the imagination of the public."
        Ginny Cooper, Vice Chair, BPI Classical Committee, says: "We are delighted with the ongoing support Radio 3 is providing the specialist classical chart by making a podcast available. This will further enhance listeners' ability to access the plethora of fantastic and innovative new recordings released every week. The UK has a wonderful history of both classical music and record companies making recordings, and we are happy that Radio 3 is providing us an opportunity to present these recordings within a modern world."

        Comment

        • DracoM
          Host
          • Mar 2007
          • 12986

          #5
          < "that have captured the imagination of the public" >

          Erm........'the download of this Chart podcast will make money for us both by creating a market' is what I think he really means. RW has a bloomin' nerve.

          A more naked commercialisation of a BBC breand would be hard to imagine. so this really is in every sense now Classic FM, except it's R3 in disguise - or do I mean decline?

          Comment

          • Eine Alpensinfonie
            Host
            • Nov 2010
            • 20572

            #6
            Rather than "Composer of the Week", I would suggest "Composer of the Month". This would allow better in-depth examination of a composer's work, particularly when commemorating anniversaries, without going to the extreme of wall-to-wall playing of a single composer for several days.

            Comment

            • johnb
              Full Member
              • Mar 2007
              • 2903

              #7
              EA, That's a good idea, though I don't think CoW is intended to be an "in-depth" type programme - more one that skates gently over the subject.

              I keep remembering the week some years ago when Prokofiev was the subject of CoW and there was also a "Prokofiev Evening" in the same week. The Prokofiev evening comprised significant works together with discussions/talks detailed background to the composer and his output (presented, I think, by the excellent Gerard McBurney). Both the Prokofiev Evening and the Composer of the Week programmes (in total) lasted about 5 hours but the quality and depth of the two were oceans apart.

              R3 used to do some special evenings and special days for composers. At best they were outstandingly excellent (e.g. the Janacek Day, the Prokofiev Evening) but some were pretty desultory (e.g. the John Ogdon evening).

              Comment

              • Daring Tripod

                #8
                What a refreshing and positive ‘post’ Suffolkcoastal!
                No rancour. No moans and groans. Just constructive suggestions.

                Before the ‘divergenceists’ get hold of this site, may I add that it’s about time that historic recordings were given an airing in a series of dedicated programmes. Since the last time this was done, some time ago, there have been so many historic reissues, there are a lot more of masterly older historic performances by great artists now on the market that we would love to hear. Tjis would be a programme to get RC out of his Breakfast spot!

                Comment

                • doversoul1
                  Ex Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 7132

                  #9
                  Quoted in #4
                  "This is the podcast for any music fan who wants to keep an eye on the most popular new classical CDs making an impact across the UK”

                  Well, this is clearly not us. Do we need any more proofs that Roger Wright has got completely wrong ideas about Radio3, or more precisely, that he is steering the station away from what it should be?

                  Daring Tripod. Can you see any hope that historic recordings will ever get looked at under this ‘leadership’?

                  Composer of the Week
                  I think a month for one composer will be a bit tough for both producers and listeners especially with less major composers. As John says, the programme is more an introduction than an in-depth study, but to have companion programmes will make it very interesting for listeners. Thanks to iPlayer, we can listen to it again so these special programmes will not be wasted.

                  Comment

                  • Frances_iom
                    Full Member
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 2415

                    #10
                    Look back to the pre Wright days - CD masters did much of what is being suggested with discussion by two presenters who knew their material of both old and new recordings. We also had many more EBU concerts both in afternoon as well as the evening slot - which was often a live or 'as live' presentation of a recent concert (they also started at the generally more convenient time of 7.30pm) - the breakfast slot was free of tweets, twits etc; the 9-10am slot was COTW rather than the wasted slot it is today (joined to Breakfast it seems for no better reason than to game the Rajar figures).
                    Looking a little further back the in-tune slot had a varied range of presenters - some of them natural pedagogues as well as excellent musicians - it also came more from the regions thus removing the London-centric model of today - there was also a much wider range of classical music genres (eg less common string quartets + organ recitals to name but two - when was the last time we heard a recital on an historic or modern instrument with a proper discussion of that instrument)

                    Re Charts - I suspect a certain controller is lining up jobs post BBC

                    Comment

                    • Bax-of-Delights
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 745

                      #11
                      There is a natural tendency in any of these discussions to beat up on the present regime at R3 - so I won't break the mould.
                      But seriously I think one of the very worst shifts was to replace CD Masters with Classical Collection. It is almost inexplicable in terms of replacing real quality with the humdrum and might lead one to think that CD Masters was perceived as somehow too 'highbrow' for the market that R3 now thinks is where it should be hovering. For example, today, I have been working in one room with the radio on in another and faint strains of extremely familiar music has been wafting through:
                      Pachabel's Canon
                      Albinoni's Adagio
                      Orff: Carmina Burana (just the Old Spice advert bit)
                      and it struck me how disturbingly lazy the Classical Collection team have become. The old CD Masters always button-holed me even when the occasional familiar piece was played because I knew that JS and RC would have something intelligent and informative to say about the music. Now the 10-12 slot is just a continuation of the 7-10 playlist with perhaps a few longer (but very familiar) pieces. Whereas I would dutifuly tune in and listen to CD Masters I am more likely not to do so with Classical Collection.

                      The "specialist" classical collection chart seems an absolute nonsense and has no revelance to me, my buying habits, my intended purchases or, as far as I can tell, little else - apart from perhaps the latest cheapo offerings in Asda (which is why Rieu still rides high). Indeed, the fact that Rieu is in there at all makes the chart laughable. Why RC involves himself with it remains a mystery.
                      O Wort, du Wort, das mir Fehlt!

                      Comment

                      • Eine Alpensinfonie
                        Host
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 20572

                        #12
                        I hardly ever listen to Radio 3 in the mornings now, except on Saturday, which is one of the highlights. But there's some great material :) in the afternoons (when I'm at work:( )

                        Nothing fires the imagination more than the BBC's flagship - the Proms. I try to listen to every one of these.

                        Comment

                        • Daring Tripod

                          #13
                          Doversoul
                          One can live in hope! After all, the next incumbent in the 'Wright spot' may look at these suggestions to see what he can and should do differently if, by then, R3 is still on air by then.
                          After all, I guess the over-riding criteria will be 'cost' for considering any new proposals and a series of historic recorded performances will have a minimal cost!

                          Comment

                          • Suffolkcoastal
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 3292

                            #14
                            This is why I am suggesting greater cooperation with other classical music networks, orchestras, performers, music experts etc, the sharing of knowledge and resources could enhance the programming and also share the costs around.

                            Comment

                            • doversoul1
                              Ex Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 7132

                              #15
                              Daring Tripod and Suffolkcoastal

                              Do you not think that what Radio3, or more likely BBC, is trying to save is the cost on brains and minds? If they play not only the same, popular works but also new releases that are easily available, they don’t need to pay for specialists. I would say that those absurd (and hilarious if you can sit back) mistakes in the playlists are a good proof of what they are doing (trying cut the cost). I hope this makes sense. My brain has closed down for the day.

                              I too live in hope but it is getting increasingly hard to hold on to the hope, especially when I hear yet another Vote for the Favourite…

                              Comment

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