Vienna Phil 2012 New Year's concert

[Petrushka]

Just to note that the Vaterländischer march is actually by Johann & Josef together.

I wonder who wrote which bit? Despite sone of his waltzes being quite boisterous in places (see Mein Lebenslauf ist Lieb und Lust and Aquarellen) I'd say that Josef would have penned the trio. Incidentally, I don't know of any marches that came solely from Josef but am not sufficiently knowledgeable about his entire output to be sure.

It's also good to see Carl Michael Ziehrer represented this year. Wiener Burger is up there with the best though my two favourites are Faschingskinder and Weaner Mad'ln.

[Nick Armstrong]

Wiener Burger

The catering at the Musikverein has really gone downhill...!

[Flosshilde]

Interesting that there hasn't been much comment on the actual programme so far.

Well, there's not much to say about it, is there? Unless one wants to get into anorak-y details about when such and such waltz was last played. It's simply a lot of Strauss etc waltzes etc, which while they might be pleasant for half an hour or so get rather tedious after an hour.

The VPO constitution says that players have to serve as members of the State Opera orchestra for three years before being admitted to the august ranks of the VPO itself. It will therefore take time for women to be properly represented in the orchestra.

Maybe, but women have been playing professionally for rather more than three years, so there's been plenty of time for them to have been with the Opera orchestra & then moved on the the VPO, if the latter are serious about selecting the best musicians, & not just the ones with dangly bits between their legs (which are not, I understand, involved in playing a musical instrument)

[Petrushka]

Well, there's not much to say about it, is there? Unless one wants to get into anorak-y details about when such and such waltz was last played. It's simply a lot of Strauss etc waltzes etc, which while they might be pleasant for half an hour or so get rather tedious after an hour.



Maybe, but women have been playing professionally for rather more than three years, so there's been plenty of time for them to have been with the Opera orchestra & then moved on the the VPO, if the latter are serious about selecting the best musicians, & not just the ones with dangly bits between their legs (which are not, I understand, involved in playing a musical instrument)

Well, one or two of us have had a look at the programme and have made some worthwhile observations that are not in the least anorak-y. Why resurrect this argument over women in the orchestra again when it was flogged to death several posts ago? It's now very boring.

[Mr Pee]

Well, there's not much to say about it, is there? Unless one wants to get into anorak-y details about when such and such waltz was last played. It's simply a lot of Strauss etc waltzes etc, which while they might be pleasant for half an hour or so get rather tedious after an hour.

I don't find an hour or so of Strauss Waltzes etc. at all tedious, especially when played by the Vienna Philharmonic.

Well, one or two of us have had a look at the programme and have made some worthwhile observations that are not in the least anorak-y. Why resurrect this argument over women in the orchestra again when it was flogged to death several posts ago? It's now very boring.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have to dissent (respectfully) from the prior comment that knocked down the Strauss dynasty in favor of Tchaikovsky as the "true waltz king". I've been listening to the 6-CD set of Strauss family waltzes, polkas, marches, etc. with the VPO and Boskovsky recently, and was struck all over again by how consistently strong their quality is. Granted, not every single Strauss waltz (Johann II, Josef, etc.) is gold, but they had to churn out dance music at almost an assembly line pace, and did very well by that. I would certainly rank Tchaikovsky in their class, in terms of overall quality. But for overall "title", I give the nod to the Strauss family.

The comparison is difficult ot make. How many waltzes did Tchaikovsky write?
3 in The Nutcracker
3 in Swan Lake (I think)
2 or more in Sleeping Beauty
1 in the Serenade for Strings
1 in Eugene Onegin
1 in the 5th symphony
....I've run out
But you take my point - there aren't that many, whereas J. Strauss II... wow!

[Pabmusic]

The comparison is difficult ot make.

Yes, it is. And I've never thought of 'Waltz King' as anything but a title JS2 was known as in his lifetime (remembering that JS1 was called it before him). It's surely much the same as John Philip Sousa, the 'March King' - a 19th-Century publicity gimmick.

That aside, here's a list of JS2's works:http://www.johann-strauss.org.uk/strauss.php?id=124 Without donning an anorak, I'd say there's at least 100 waltzes. Not a bad show at all.

Here's the equivalent list for Josef: http://www.johann-strauss.org.uk/strauss.php?id=127 It's remarkable, since it represents a career of only 17 years (elder brother Johann's was 50 years). And this list doesn't include (all) of the 500 pieces burnt by Eduard when he disbanded the orchestra in 1907!

[Ferretfancy]

Alpensinfonie
J.Strauss II --wow! -- well said!

There is, of course, the famous account of Brahms attending a rehearsal with Strauss. During a break he studied the score of the Waldmeister Overture, and pencilled in a counter melody to the main theme, adding the note - 'Johannes Brahms, not, alas! Johann Strauss ! "

[cloughie]

The comparison is difficult ot make. How many waltzes did Tchaikovsky write?
3 in The Nutcracker
3 in Swan Lake (I think)
2 or more in Sleeping Beauty
1 in the Serenade for Strings
1 in Eugene Onegin
1 in the 5th symphony
....I've run out
But you take my point - there aren't that many, whereas J. Strauss II... wow!

Quality or quantity - preferred listening - you take your choice!

[amateur51]

Well, one or two of us have had a look at the programme and have made some worthwhile observations that are not in the least anorak-y. Why resurrect this argument over women in the orchestra again when it was flogged to death several posts ago? It's now very boring.

Indeed it is a very boring sitaution - and one that is so easily resolved. I trust that you'll be making respresentation to the VPO Board soonest

[Flosshilde]

Indeed it is a very boring sitaution - and one that is so easily resolved. I trust that you'll be making respresentation to the VPO Board soonest

Some interesting (& rather worrying) quotes on Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_...#Controversies - including some rather bizarre claims about 'soul'.

And "The Vienna State Opera Orchestra agreed to admit women in 1997, but after ten years, the m/f ratio for permanent positions in the orchestra is still only 143 to 5." from http://www.osborne-conant.org/kenyeri.htm

It's clear that the problem isn't just with the VPO but with the Opera Orchestra as well.

[amateur51]

Some interesting (& rather worrying) quotes on Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_...#Controversies - including some rather bizarre claims about 'soul'.

And "The Vienna State Opera Orchestra agreed to admit women in 1997, but after ten years, the m/f ratio for permanent positions in the orchestra is still only 143 to 5." from http://www.osborne-conant.org/kenyeri.htm

It's clear that the problem isn't just with the VPO but with the Opera Orchestra as well.

At a guess, I'd say that the problem lies with Austria, Flossie

[Chris Newman]

At a guess, I'd say that the problem lies with Austria, Flossie

Yes, now what is the name of that condition where you become forgetful?
Er....?
Oh yes.....Waldheimer's.

[amateur51]

Yes, now what is the name of that condition where you become forgetful?
Er....?
Oh yes.....Waldheimer's.

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=683

[Suffolkcoastal]

The comparison is difficult ot make. How many waltzes did Tchaikovsky write?
3 in The Nutcracker
3 in Swan Lake (I think)
2 or more in Sleeping Beauty
1 in the Serenade for Strings
1 in Eugene Onegin
1 in the 5th symphony
....I've run out
But you take my point - there aren't that many, whereas J. Strauss II... wow!

Symphonies 3 & 6 (the 5/4 waltz), Suites 2 & 3 for Orchestra, the Valse-Capriccio for Piano, the Valse-Scherzo's for Piano and Violin & Orchestra (or piano). Yes the Strauss family wrote many more but Tchaikovsky's are memorable, I find I can never remember more than 3 of J Strauss II's waltzes the rest just merge in to one for me I'm afraid and the Double Bass parts are incredibly dull. I've wondered if I should apply for one of the Double Bass players with old Andre Rieu as it would be such an easy way to earn a living, the travelling excepted.