Vienna Phil 2012 New Year's concert

[Alison]

A tendency to confuse profundity with complexity maybe, Mr Pee.

And of course there will be a day and a time for us to enjoy Brahms concerts too.

(Actually that Herbert von performance is stupendous isn't it ?)

[Flosshilde]

Only guessing but I wonder if Flossie has been prejudiced by endless run-of-the-mill renditions of the Blue Danube and Tales from the Vienna Woods?

Well, possibly - as they sound much the same (to me) I wouldn't know which I've heard. Individually they are perfectly pleasant & entertaining, but not 2-3 hours worth!

I've just heard the Trisch-trasch (sp?) Polka on In Tune, & where my jaw does drop is at the stamina & energy of the dancers at the balls the music was written for.

(Incidentally, as far as tradition is concerned, the concerts started in 1939, "during a dark period of Austria's history, [they] were initially conceived for a local audience as a reminder of better times and a source of hope for the future". All well & good, but the employment policies of the VPO are more of reminder of the 'dark period')

[Flosshilde]

How anybody could dismiss such music as trite or inconsequential is quite beyond my comprehension.

Did I say "trite" or "inconsequential"? Where?

[Mr Pee]

Well, possibly - as they sound much the same (to me) I wouldn't know which I've heard. Individually they are perfectly pleasant & entertaining, but not 2-3 hours worth!

I've just heard the Trisch-trasch (sp?) Polka on In Tune, & where my jaw does drop is at the stamina & energy of the dancers at the balls the music was written for.

(Incidentally, as far as tradition is concerned, the concerts started in 1939, "during a dark period of Austria's history, [they] were initially conceived for a local audience as a reminder of better times and a source of hope for the future". All well & good, but the employment policies of the VPO are more of reminder of the 'dark period')

If you really can't hear the difference between The Blue Danube and Tales from the Vienna Woods, then I'm surprised you bother listening to music at all. Are you able to tell one Mozart Symphony from another?

As for your remark about the present day VPO and the Nazi regime of 1939, well it is such a ridiculous analogy that I don't think it is worth dignifying with a response.

[Petrushka]

Actually that Herbert von performance is stupendous isn't it ?

And 25 years ago yesterday as well! I don't believe it!

[John Skelton]

the employment policies of the VPO are more of reminder of the 'dark period')

Do they have "employment policies" as such? That's part of the criticism - that it's all done by understanding and custom and is therefore deniable.

It doesn't make the situation good or correct, but when I lived in an Eastern European capital city I went to concerts given by its very famous Philharmonic Orchestra and not once did I see a woman on the stage other than as a soloist or in a choir. Things may well have changed over the course of the decade since I've been there*, though whether they've changed more than has been the case with the VPO I doubt.

[*Googling it seems there are eight women who are now members of the orchestra]

[aeolium]

Here is a very recent update on the VPO situation re the employment of women. The author has been a long-standing opponent of the VPO's employment practices but even if you disagree with his standpoint it's worth having a look at the statistics.

[Paul N]

And that stupid dance programme during the Blue Danube!! Actually, that stupid dancing period.
Blue Danube is a real test piece and to WATCH the VPO playing it is education in itself. I do wish ORF stopped dressing up the music with all that kitsch and camp. It's actually not a very good global advert for the State Opera Ballet either - they're not all that good.

They aren't, I agree. I charitably blame it on the strange floors they're dancing on.

Well as for the standard of dancing, I wonder what you are using as your standard for comparison. Personally, I thought the dancers performed well, especially considering they're performing live to a far bigger audience than ballet ever gets. Parts of the choreography are a different matter however. I'm still waiting for something to match the pieces contributed by John Neumeier for 2006 (Neue Pizzicato Polka and Du und Du Walzer), featuring dancers from his Hamburg Ballet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2SOh1YAff0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I8IXViVprE

I'm with DracoM in preferring to see the orchestra in The Blue Danube.

[Paul N]

The waltz accompaniment in the Sleeping Beauty Waltz was interesting. It sounded as though Jansons had told the VPO to behave themselves and not play it with a Viennese lilt (unlike Karajan who who let them or encouraged them to follow their instincts. They appeared to overcompensat a little in order to avoid playing the 2nd beat early... by playing it late. No harm done though and I enjoyed the whole concert.

It certainly sounded different to what I'm accustomed to. But it followed the Panorama beautifully (with no applause in between!!). Just a shame the Panorama did not have all its repeats included, but then again, it seems normal for them not to be at ballet performances either.

[bluestateprommer]

Well as for the standard of dancing, I wonder what you are using as your standard for comparison. Personally, I thought the dancers performed well, especially considering they're performing live to a far bigger audience than ballet ever gets......

I'm with DracoM in preferring to see the orchestra in The Blue Danube.

I'm with Paul N regarding the dancing and the presentation. Once, on a long-ago PBS truncated telecast of the VPO concert, I remember seeing a montage of past clips of VPO excerpts, with one where the staging of the dancing (not to mention some of the costumes) looked really dated, cheesy, and stagebound. This is not a reflection of the skill and agility of the dancers then, of course, nor certainly now. With the current dance sequences, one has to keep in mind that they're dancing in the real Vienna venues, with the real artworks hanging on the walls. The dancers have to be extremely in control and careful in their moves, and the choreography has to take into account the real-world settings.

In the case of the Blue Danube, I didn't mind so much the choreography, if only because the whole idea of the sequence as an escape into a Viennese-fantasy land reflects something of what I feel about Vienna, sort of a nostalgia for a time and ethos of life that doesn't really seem to exist now, except when one does visit Vienna, if partly in the imagination. Plus, the lead ballerina is really cute :) .

[Flosshilde]

The one time I saw it the dance sequence did look contrived, with very unconvincing choreography. Perhaps they should use people who are professional (or good amateur) ball-room dancers, who can actually dance a proper waltz or polka?