Dvorak's Te Deum - Janacek?

[johnb]

The other day I was listening to Smetacek's recording of Dvorak's Te Deum and kept being reminded of Janacek.

Although they were near contemporaries it seems that Janacek devoted himself mainly to folklorist until 1895 and the Te Deum was written in 1892 so, if there is any influence it would have had to be that of Dvorak on Janacek.

... or are my ears deceiving me?

[makropulos]

The other day I was listening to Smetacek's recording of Dvorak's Te Deum and kept being reminded of Janacek.

Although they were near contemporaries it seems that Janacek devoted himself mainly to folklorist until 1895 and the Te Deum was written in 1892 so, if there is any influence it would have had to be that of Dvorak on Janacek.

... or are my ears deceiving me?

No, I don't think they are - I hear a bit of that too - but it is going to be a case of AD having an influence on LJ rather than the other way around (as you'll know from any of LJ's earliest pieces). I don't think LJ ever conducted the Te Deum, though he will certainly have known it (and of course he and AD were good friends). In 1912 the Te Deum was on the same programme as the first performance of his own cantata Čartak on the Solaň (along with pieces by Smetana and Fibich).

Oh, one other piece of Te Deum trivia: the edition I have of the piano-vocal score is an arrangement by Josef Suk and has an English translation "revised by R. Vaughan Williams". Nice combination of names there....

[Chris Newman]

Hi John,
I think your ears are telling the truth. Dvořák and Janáček were very good friends. They often went on walking holidays together. Dvořák helped the younger composer with advice on early works like the opera Sarka which sadly was never performed in Janáček's lifetime because the librettist refused him permission to use the text AFTER he had written the music. Dvořák's five late symphonic poems (The Water Goblin, Op. 107, The Noon Witch, Op. 108, The Golden Spinning Wheel, Op. 109, The Wild Dove, Op. 110A and Hero's Song, Op. 111) are based upon rather gruesome ballad poems by Karel Erbe and were tremendous influences upon Janáček who premiered some of them in Brno. Janáček wrote and published very detailed analytical notes on the Symphonic Poems. Dvořák thought very highly of his friend's originality and we can be sure that influences went both ways.

Dvořák and Janáček both wrote their operas Rusalka and Jenufa at roughly the same time although this was after the Te Deum which Dvořák wrote for his first concert in New York at the invitation of Mrs Thurber who set up the National Conservatory of Music for him to establish an American style of music. After his short stay in America Dvořák found his talent for writing opera as did Janáček after abandoning Sarka. The extraordinarily joyous and exciting Te Deum must have made a great impression upon Janáček.

bws
Chris.

[Roehre]

Excellent postings, Chris and Makropulos

[RobertLeDiable]

It's true - the late Dvorak tone poems often sound as if they're about to veer into Janacek, and in those late pieces you hear so clearly how much Janacek took from Dvorak. Dvorak was definitely becoming more radical in old age!

[makropulos]

Hi John,
I think your ears are telling the truth. Dvořák and Janáček were very good friends. They often went on walking holidays together. Dvořák helped the younger composer with advice on early works like the opera Sarka which sadly was never performed in Janáček's lifetime because the librettist refused him permission to use the text AFTER he had written the music. Dvořák's five late symphonic poems (The Water Goblin, Op. 107, The Noon Witch, Op. 108, The Golden Spinning Wheel, Op. 109, The Wild Dove, Op. 110A and Hero's Song, Op. 111) are based upon rather gruesome ballad poems by Karel Erbe and were tremendous influences upon Janáček who premiered some of them in Brno. Janáček wrote and published very detailed analytical notes on the Symphonic Poems. Dvořák thought very highly of his friend's originality and we can be sure that influences went both ways.

Dvořák and Janáček both wrote their operas Rusalka and Jenufa at roughly the same time although this was after the Te Deum which Dvořák wrote for his first concert in New York at the invitation of Mrs Thurber who set up the National Conservatory of Music for him to establish an American style of music. After his short stay in America Dvořák found his talent for writing opera as did Janáček after abandoning Sarka. The extraordinarily joyous and exciting Te Deum must have made a great impression upon Janáček.

bws
Chris.

Very much agree with almost all your post, Chris, but I have to correct what you say about Šárka: it certainly was performed in Janáček's lifetime: on 11 November 1925 it was given in Brno at the National Theatre, conducted by Frantisek Neumann. Janáček was present, alive and well. (Julius Zeyer, the librettist, had died in 1901).

[David Underdown]

I've been rehearsing the Te Deum this term (for a Twickenham Choral Society concert at Kingston Parish Church, 7:30pm, the Dvorak, plus Schönberg's Friede auf Erden and Brahms's Requiem, soloists Sophie Bevan and Lukas Kargl, conductor Christopher Herrick), and it was a similarity which struck me from the start too

[Chris Newman]

Very much agree with almost all your post, Chris, but I have to correct what you say about Šárka: it certainly was performed in Janáček's lifetime: on 11 November 1925 it was given in Brno at the National Theatre, conducted by Frantisek Neumann. Janáček was present, alive and well. (Julius Zeyer, the librettist, had died in 1901).

Thanks for that, makropoulos. I think it was your excellent suggestion that I bought myself John Tyrrell's two monster tomes for my Christmas present. I did and opened it early (tut-tut) but have just reached 1902 (halfway through Volume 1) and only first heard Šárka myself this last weekend and have not reached 1925 yet. I should have read the sleeve notes instead of diving straight in. I have been ordering recorded plums like Šárka as I read Tyrrell so as to fill musical gaps. I think it (Šárka) would make an excellent alternative partner to either Cav or Pag. A touch of something nasty in the verismo woodshed.

[makropulos]

Thanks for that, makropoulos. I think it was your excellent suggestion that I bought myself John Tyrrell's two monster tomes for my Christmas present. I did and opened it early (tut-tut) but have just reached 1902 (halfway through Volume 1) and only first heard Šárka myself this last weekend and have not reached 1925 yet. I should have read the sleeve notes instead of diving straight in. I have been ordering recorded plums like Šárka as I read Tyrrell so as to fill musical gaps. I think it (Šárka) would make an excellent alternative partner to either Cav or Pag. A touch of something nasty in the verismo woodshed.

Yes - I very much like Šárka too - there are some lovely moments in it and Janáček thought well enough of it to have several goes at revising it, all through his life. A plan to publish the vocal score in time for his 70th birthday (I think) never came to fruition, but we have a very nice one now from Universal Edition (very nice but horribly expensive, that is: http://www.universaledition.com/Sark...656/kid/633093).

So glad you're enjoying John Tyrrell's marvellous biography!

[EdgeleyRob]

Excellent postings, Chris and Makropulos

Agreed, interesting stuff.The sorts of posts which are the making of this forum.Many thanks.