Manchester and Sibelius

[french frank]

Why is it that whenever I ask a professional orchestral musician a question regarding the Inner Sanctum of an orchestra, they clam up?

Now, if you were out somewhere standing them drinks or dinner, you might get somewhere, Mario

[MrGongGong]

For example, the very first rehearsal with a new orchestra, who decides how many first and second violins to have, does the conductor tell the timpanist to “bash those blighters” or to calm down as he cannot hear inner detail?

Last time I wrote an orchestral piece it was all down to how many they could afford !
Though Violinists are cheaper than having 15 percussionists, chromatic crotales, wind machine, 6 Tam Tams and a Waterphone ! (yet quality violins are extraordinarily expensive !)

Usually the Timpanist has a score to follow (the don't last very long if they go "off piste" at the first rehearsal )

Music learning takes time and experience , you have to put in the hours to get a sense of balance etc
there really isn't a great conspiracy though ......................... apart from the *********** Orchestra, of course

[Sapere Aude]

Hello MrGG!

I don’t want to get involved in this intra-City clash – heck, I’m not even British!

However, you will find through my posts here and on the old BBCMBs, that I’m fascinated, absolutely captivated, by the workings of an orchestra, “behind the scenes”.

For example, the very first rehearsal with a new orchestra, who decides how many first and second violins to have, does the conductor tell the timpanist to “bash those blighters” or to calm down as he cannot hear inner detail?

Honestly, I could ask a million questions. But let’s just start with one.

Who taught you at the RLPO? I don’t mean names, but which instrument and how do you cultivate an inner ear for listening to orchestral balance?

Or am I asking too much here? Sorry, that's three questions...

Mario

In some music the composer decides (when they ask specifically for a particular number of desks, or players). Unfortunately often because of economical or "practical" reasons, the composers wishes are ignored. For example, how often have you seen some of the music of Berlioz done with the actual number of string players he asked for?? Very rarely, if ever!... Mahler, for his 2nd symphony for ex. asks for "the largest possible contingent of strings" - and sometimes I saw it done with as little as 5 desks of 2nds!! Is that the largest possible contingent of strings??!! But there will always be an excuse such as "there is no space on stage for more", or "no money to pay for more players for a particular concert" ....

In concertos, sometimes, the conductor may decide during the first rehearsal to reduce the number of strings for balance reasons. In fact even with the "biggest sounding" soloists, an orchestra usually would have to adjust the dynamics downwards frequently, or the soloists would otherwise be obliterated for much of the time!

For earlier music repertoire, the string section size decisions are normally taken well in advance - usually again by the conductor and the orchestra management.

The conductor has the final word almost always (unless money comes into play...).

The composers dynamic markings I'm afraid are ... relative. Relative to the acoustic of the hall, to the type of instruments used (modern vs. old), to the size of the section, to the power of the players, to the technical requirements of a passage, etc, etc. The musicians, with training, experience and ... talent, would adjust a lot of that automatically, but the conductor who stands "in the middle" is responsible for fine tuning the balance and will have the final word. Any balance decisions are relative to the type of music and passages in question. There is no general rule as in "we all adjust our balance always to the second bassoon"! It depends, which instrument has the "main line", are there any "counter-melodies", in what register a particular instrument is, can they give more, how thick or thin is the orchestration, how technically capable are the players (or even how good are their instruments!), can they risk playing a high note more quietly, etc, etc. The balance conclusions will derive from considering all that.

[RobertLeDiable]

I have been much impressed by the Halle recently. British orchestras are very healthy sounding at the moment (though far from safe!) and the Halle is among the best. The BBC ScottishSO has a female timpanist too.

Point of information (rather late, I'm afraid): it's the Scottish Chamber Orchestra that has a lady timpanist. Not that it should make any difference...

[Angle]

Chips? Intra-city clash? No, nothing like that. All is peace and love.

I am not a scouser, never have been and no desire to be, but I do quite like living here but at the moment I trying to gather the strength to get back to Alphabetical Associations - which I have watching from a distance - though I am not sure I have enough spare time right now.

Don