Nicola Benedetti/Alexei Grynyuk lunchtime recital

[french frank]

She may well be. But my concern is that a player of such obvious potential should not succumb to the temptation to become another Vanessa Mae.

You're much more generous than Ariosto, VH, since you allow that she has potential!

I think it's all very well to compare young instrumentalists with the all-time greats, but if you expect them to be equally good while still in their early twenties they have nowhere else to go. It's the same with, for example, Benjamin Grosvenor. Yes, these youngsters get recording contracts, their records sell, they become 'rich and famous'. I think it needs successful teachers to tell us how much improvement can be expected and how it can be achieved, teachers who've worked with the best.

The kind of generally contemptuous comments which suggest a player should give up are pretty silly. Plenty of 'second-' and 'third-rate' players have worked hard and had very successful careers. Most of them aren't as good as Heifetz but they've done quite well in their little way .

[Flosshilde]

Nice to have someone else with perception and critical faculties!! Welcome!!

i.e. someone who agrees with you.

[Flosshilde]

Who gives a toss about the charts. They just represent what a lot of cloth eared idiots think.

i.e. the people who buy CDs. Except of course those who've bought Ariosto's CDs (I assume that as a professional musician he's made some), who are all paragons of discernment.

[Flosshilde]

I've just seen on her website that she plays on the Earl Spencer Stradivarius (c 1712). And that she is still having lessons!! Not much hope there then.

But you just said that she should "take 3-5 years out and go to the best teachers there are" (message 25). I know you didn't specifically refer to 'lessons', but where there are teachers, lessons are sure to follow.

[Flosshilde]

I would have thought that was obvious. Once you have recordings then there is no need to employ musicians to the same extent.

So, if dear old Edison hadn't invented a means of recording, & playing back, musical performances, we'd all be like Prince Esterhazy & have our own symphony orchestra (& singers, so that we could enjoy an occasional opera) in our sitting rooms?

I'm just saying that professional performing musicians (like VH for example), have much higher standards and expectations than the average listener. That's probably why we disagree so often with some members of this forum.

i.e. we're right & all you plebs know nothing about it.

[Ariosto]

She's been having lessons for I don't know how long for god's sake according to her website, but it does not appear to be doing any good.

Why am I having to state the obvious?

This is getting stupid.

[Ariosto]

i.e. we're right & all you plebs know nothing about it.

You have got it in one!

[John Skelton]

I would have thought that was obvious. Once you have recordings then there is no need to employ musicians to the same extent.

It isn't obvious to me. You mean that people sit in concert halls with giant speakers in front of them playing a concert of CDs?

I do not seem to remember having mentioned 'period instrument musicians.' Where did that come up on this thread? Unless of course you count Nicola Benedetti as a 'period instrument musician.'

But I'm sure period instrument players have opinions and make there own judgements as to what they consider good or bad, and they can speak for themselves. It may differ from my opinion, but that's by the way.

It isn't generally by the way with you, though, is it? I don't recall you making a habit of accepting any validity to the work of 'period instrument' musicians. Indeed, you can be extremely colourful in your denunciations of their playing . (I don't count Nicola Benedetti as a period instrument specialist, no).

I can't quite understand what you are getting at. I haven't mentioned any professional musicians of a 'certain kind' - I'm just saying that professional performing musicians (like VH for example), have much higher standards and expectations than the average listener. That's probably why we disagree so often with some members of this forum.

By a certain kind I mean professional musicians who specialise in the classical music that predominates in concert halls. There are professional musicians who specialise in early music, in contemporary music. There are professional musicians who specialise in jazz or free improvisation. Or musicians who specialise in popular music (I'm not thinking of chart music, although I'm sure they are often very professional. If not at all to my taste). A rather narrow definition of professional musician seems implied by your remarks. There are, of course, some very fine amateur musicians, too. Bartók devoted a great deal of time and thought to recording their music.

Much higher standards and expectations? OK. Those standards and expectations haven't always helped professional musicians make very good judgements about music then new to them, have they? The catalogue of works and composers now greatly admired who have been declared mad or idiotic or unplayable or intolerable by professional musicians is an impressive one .

[John Wright]

This is getting stupid.

You're right, especially the bit where you suggest that once musicians have recorded a piece of music they need never play it again

[neckhurts]

a fair argument

I was absolutely shocked to read the posts on this thread, and actually feel slightly ashamed to be reading them and now responding - but someone should be holding you guys responsible for your words. It is as if none of you have actually taken the time to hear Nicola play enough times to judge her fairly. On that note I would be interested to know how many concerts you have heard Nicola perform in the last two year, and if you have been, which performances have you attended? I have been to as many as I possibly can in London and I have witnessed a consistent growth and passion in her playing and do not relate whatsoever to any of the posts you have written.

I, along with numerous professional musicians who are good friends of mine, believe Nicola is fast becoming one of the most promising young violinists of her generation, and this was not an automatic acquired position. It's one she has earned. Do you all really think she would be performing with some of today's greatest orchestras around the world (and no, not just in the UK where yes, she largely rides on her fame) if she were no good? The fact that you think this is possible only exposes your ignorance to how this world works. Yes, you can become famous like Vanessa Mae if you're no good, but you do NOT get invitations from Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, London, San Francicso, Chicago symphony orchestras just because you won BBC YMOTY. Are you living in hibernation?

It also seems to me that you are saying that only professional musicians have a worthy opinion to judge those who are deemed professional, but you are no longer professional. ... am i correct? I would just love to know the name of your quartet Ariosto, and to hear you. It shocks me that so many people are quick to judge musicians of the highest calibre when they are themselves failed in the profession they have first sought to follow. I'm not saying that you have to be a great violinist to know if someone's any good or not, but my goodness you guys are just so wrong about Nicola. I'm sad for you, writing with all the bitterness in the world. I won't be visiting again..

[french frank]

I was absolutely shocked to read the posts on this thread, and actually feel slightly ashamed to be reading them and now responding.

Hello, neckhurts - and welcome!

Don't be too shocked - this is what Ariosto had to say about Janine Jansen (when he was Cellini). And Angela East's Bach cello suites recording got a really bad review - as did she!

(No significance, I'm sure, in the fact that they're all women!)


May I add - well said! Sorry, very sorry, if you don't feel liking returning, but that's very understandable.

[Bryn]

And the Angela East Bach Cello Suites comments prompted me to order the discs (interesting but not my first choice).

[french frank]

Thanks for the correction, Bryn - I was writing in haste!

[Flosshilde]

Hello, neckhurts - and welcome!

Don't be too shocked - this is what Ariosto had to say about Janine Jansen (when he was Cellini). And Angela East's Bach cello suites recording got a really bad review - as did she!

(No significance, I'm sure, in the fact that they're all women!)


May I add - well said! Sorry, very sorry, if you don't feel liking returning, but that's very understandable.

neckhurts, a ff says, Ariosto/Cellini does have form, & he's flounced off the board a few times when he's felt that his pearls of wisdom haven't been appreciated, so you should take what he says with a pinch of salt. To be fair, Ariosto/Cellini does make some ammends in his second post in the thread ff links to -
"Well, I listened again to some of the Beethoven on "Listen Again" and it sounded better than I had heard on air. Strange that! I wonder if she had re-recorded it? Probably not.

Although it does have his customary sting in the tail - that "probably not"

[gradus]

Well I actually enjoyed NB's Brahms performance - the original reason I posted was to draw attention to this splendid music as much as the performance. Like many music-lovers I trust my own cloth-ears to tell me whether a performance is worth hearing. I enjoy reading the views of others, although I take the occasional ex cathedra pronouncements from some of our correspondents with the pinch of salt that I presume they intend.