Nicola Benedetti/Alexei Grynyuk lunchtime recital

[french frank]

Were you always as good a violinist as you are now, Ariosto?

[Ariosto]

Were you always as good a violinist as you are now, Ariosto?

How does that have any effect on the debate? I am probably better in some ways now than then, except in stamina maybe.

In fact I was talking to another violinist at the Wigmore on the evening of her lunchtime recital (he's an amateur and not a great player) and he also thought Benedetti was pretty bad too, and said that as soon as I mentioned her name.

So I am entirely with VH on this one!!

[amateur51]

Were you always as good a violinist as you are now, Ariosto?

[John Skelton]

How does that have any effect on the debate? I am probably better in some ways now than then, except in stamina maybe.

In fact I was talking to another violinist at the Wigmore on the evening of her lunchtime recital (he's an amateur and not a great player) and he also thought Benedetti was pretty bad too, and said that as soon as I mentioned her name.

So I am entirely with VH on this one!!

You did say "It comes down to the fact that professional players have hugely higher standards than others" and I'm sure that's the basis on which you make your trenchant judgements .

Why not make some recordings of yourself or of your quartet? You could upload them to Myspace or something similar. Not only would they be a pleasure to listen to, they might help members decide what is and what isn't a good performance. A practical demonstration!

[Ariosto]

You did say "It comes down to the fact that professional players have hugely higher standards than others" and I'm sure that's the basis on which you make your trenchant judgements .

Why not make some recordings of yourself or of your quartet? You could upload them to Myspace or something similar. Not only would they be a pleasure to listen to, they might help members decide what is and what isn't a good performance. A practical demonstration!

For the simple reason that i am too lazy - and also because my quartet is not very good. I only do live concerts these days - no recordings - and if someone does record the concert I do not want to hear it. I spent too many years being recorded and listening to the results, and in any case you can only learn in the flesh, not by analysing recordings. I'm in fact anti - recordings these days because by musicians agreeing to be recorded we have lost out. We are about the only group who have helped out by contributing to our own downfall.

[french frank]

You did say "It comes down to the fact that professional players have hugely higher standards than others"

because my quartet is not very good.

So your quartet is not a professional quartet? Or are you just saying that professional players know very well what constitutes good (or bad) playing standards, even though they don't always achieve them themselves? And can they be very humble in being aware of their own artistic and technical shortcomings while judging other by 'hugely higher standards' than the generality of music listeners?

[PJPJ]

So what do you call those bum notes I mentioned (try and keep it clean, Ari ! ) - the ones that sound a bit like a clarinet squawk ?

Is that a "wolf note"?

[Ariosto]

So your quartet is not a professional quartet? Or are you just saying that professional players know very well what constitutes good (or bad) playing standards, even though they don't always achieve them themselves? And can they be very humble in being aware of their own artistic and technical shortcomings while judging other by 'hugely higher standards' than the generality of music listeners?

No, I don't have a professional quartet now, as I'm not into pursuing career ambitions. You could say I'm way past my "sell by" date. I do sometimes play with very good people, but only for fun, as it were.

And yes, professional players do generally know what constitutes a high standard. At the same time, we all have artistic and technical shortcomings. I said to the second fiddle in a quartet the other night, when he said he knew he was a crap player, "compared to Heifetz, we are all crap players, so don't be negative."

A professional quartet player who was giving us coaching recently, (a cellist in a well known quartet) started going into quite advanced stuff which was probably beyond the others, especially when we got to sorting out intonation problems (something I had put asside as I thought it was a lost cause). She told me that her quartet had such arguments about intonation that they started checking every note against an electronic tuner!

When I askd the leader of a very famous string quartet how they approached rehearsing a certain (3/8) scherzo in a Beethoven Op 18 quartet he told me they spent hours with the metronome, starting very slowly. That made me feel bad, 'cause I'd never done that.

Performing musicians are only as good as their last concert, so if it was a bad one, then you aren't very good!

[french frank]

I said to the second fiddle in a quartet the other night, when he said he knew he was a crap player, "compared to Heifetz, we are all crap players, so don't be negative."

That doesn't leave much room for praise when it comes to our younger generation of players, then, does it? In your own words:"Don't be so negative."

[Ariosto]

That doesn't leave much room for praise when it comes to our younger generation of players, then, does it? In your own words:"Don't be so negative."

But Benedetti is asking to be compared with the best because she has a lot of exposure, and in most professional musician's view I would think she falls very far short. She should take 3-5 years out and go to the best teachers* there are, and then see if she can make it. If no improvement then she should hang up her boots, or get a playing job with less exposure.

*(Even then some teachers might not take her on).

[Panjandrum]

If no improvement then she should hang up her boots, or get a playing job with less exposure.

*(Even then some teachers might not take her on).

I think you missed the point I made above. Making no judgement on the technical merits of her records, I think she might choose to ignore this well meaning advice.
I suspect Miss B is laughing all the way to the bank.

[Ariosto]

I think you missed the point I made above. Making no judgement on the technical merits of her records, I think she might choose to ignore this well meaning advice.
I suspect Miss B is laughing all the way to the bank.

I'm sure she is - although I understand her father is a multi-millionaire - so she's never had problems that money can't sort out, like an expensive fiddle. (But you don't need an expensive fiddle of course - the sound comes from you - and that's why her sound is so bad, even on an expensive instrument!)

I've just seen on her website that she plays on the Earl Spencer Stradivarius (c 1712). And that she is still having lessons!! Not much hope there then.

[John Skelton]

For the simple reason that i am too lazy - and also because my quartet is not very good. I only do live concerts these days - no recordings - and if someone does record the concert I do not want to hear it. I spent too many years being recorded and listening to the results, and in any case you can only learn in the flesh, not by analysing recordings. I'm in fact anti - recordings these days because by musicians agreeing to be recorded we have lost out. We are about the only group who have helped out by contributing to our own downfall.

I don't understand - why have musicians lost out by agreeing to be recorded? Have audiences for mainstream, repertoire, classical music concerts declined because of recording? For no other reason (if they have declined, indeed). Even if it were true, I doubt musicians "are about the only group who have helped out by contributing to our own downfall" - a quick glance at the history of global employer / union agreements & government legislation over the past 30 years might suggest different.

I don't really see how insisting that only professional musicians of a certain kind (since you clearly have no regard for the judgement of 'period instrument' musicians, for example) are qualified to understand a performance of a piece of music much helps the cause of professional musicians (of a certain kind). But what do I know?

[Ventilhorn]

I think you missed the point I made above. Making no judgement on the technical merits of her records, I think she might choose to ignore this well meaning advice.
I suspect Miss B is laughing all the way to the bank.

She may well be. But my concern is that a player of such obvious potential should not succumb to the temptation to become another Vanessa Mae.

VH

[Ariosto]

I don't understand - why have musicians lost out by agreeing to be recorded?

I would have thought that was obvious. Once you have recordings then there is no need to employ musicians to the same extent.

I don't really see how insisting that only professional musicians of a certain kind (since you clearly have no regard for the judgement of 'period instrument' musicians, for example) are qualified to understand a performance of a piece of music much helps the cause of professional musicians (of a certain kind). But what do I know?

I do not seem to remember having mentioned 'period instrument musicians.' Where did that come up on this thread? Unless of course you count Nicola Benedetti as a 'period instrument musician.'

But I'm sure period instrument players have opinions and make there own judgements as to what they consider good or bad, and they can speak for themselves. It may differ from my opinion, but that's by the way.

I can't quite understand what you are getting at. I haven't mentioned any professional musicians of a 'certain kind' - I'm just saying that professional performing musicians (like VH for example), have much higher standards and expectations than the average listener. That's probably why we disagree so often with some members of this forum.