Lunchtime Concert (7/10/11) - Borodin Quartet - Brahms Op.51/2

[Guest]

I have been prompted to start this thread by Osborn's comments elsewhere.

We (the two halves) heard this coming home from a long trip, in the car. For devious reasons, we missed the introduction, so it was, in effect an 'innocent ear' experience.

The work, as with all Brahms' chamber music, is a great favourite of ours. Even knowing it well, we found that the performance seemed to lack coherence, missing the outline and development of the phrases and themes, and losing the whole shape of the work and making it difficult to follow.

What a surprise, to hear, at the end, that it was the Borodins. Of course, the current personnel do not necessarily retain the cachet of the original line-ups. Did others hear it and would they like to comment? (Perhaps the trip was too long, and our palates were too jaded.)

[french frank]

I didn't hear this concert but, by a coincidence, the only time I've heard the Borodins live they were playing op51/2. On that occasion (a recording at St Geo's, Bristol, for R3) the leader had a string break in the middle (this also had the effect of making the shape of the work difficult to follow!). The impressive thing, though, was that they all sat frozen for a second and then, in perfectly synchronised motion, the two violinists got up and walked off - presumably to enable them to tune up together. On which note - I leave it to others to comment on the performance today.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh, I see what you mean! What a "hammy" performance: phrases fragmented, melodramatic "hiccups" before sforzandi, lurching changes of Tempo, cheesy glissandi. All in the name of "interpretation" (?I suppose?) but not in the name of Brahms. (It didn't help that the i-Player had a "glitch" at the beginning of the Second Movement, sounding as if there'd been an edit in one channel that hadn't been matched in the other.)

I much preferred the last broadcast performance of this work by the Jerusalem Quartet back in August: a "traditional" reading, but warm, rich and so much more concerned with the notes and directions Brahms actually wrote in the score.

[Don Petter]

fg,

So it wasn't just us!

I do have a theory that much, if not all, of Brahms' chamber music can be divided into two types. In one, the musical thread is quite clear, with thematic progressions plain for all to hear, while still being subject to an infinity of interpretations. I would cite the three violin sonatas and the Horn Trio as examples. There is no debate at any one moment where they are going next.

Others, and the two string quintets and the Clarinet Trio come to mind, are not quite so obvious (though none the worse for that), and need good interpretations to make 'sense' of them. Perhaps Op.51/2 is an example of the latter, and the music cannot be allowed to play itself, but needs some more expert guidance.

I feel I may be getting into deep musicological water here, however, and with no formal training I'd better shut up. Nonetheless I am interested to hear that you, at least, also had some qualms about what we heard.

[Ariosto]

fg,

So it wasn't just us!

I do have a theory that much, if not all, of Brahms' chamber music can be divided into two types. In one, the musical thread is quite clear, with thematic progressions plain for all to hear, while still being subject to an infinity of interpretations. I would cite the three violin sonatas and the Horn Trio as examples. There is no debate at any one moment where they are going next.

Others, and the two string quintets and the Clarinet Trio come to mind, are not quite so obvious (though none the worse for that), and need good interpretations to make 'sense' of them. Perhaps Op.51/2 is an example of the latter, and the music cannot be allowed to play itself, but needs some more expert guidance.

I feel I may be getting into deep musicological water here, however, and with no formal training I'd better shut up. Nonetheless I am interested to hear that you, at least, also had some qualms about what we heard.

As it happens I know Brahms Op 51 No 2 in A minor quite well, as I have played it quite a lot. I would say that apart from being a technically hard quartet to bring off, it is also very hard musically. Brahms often uses (as in this quartet) two against three, or sometimes six against four, and this can easily muddy up the harmonies if not well executed.

There are very good recordings around, and I would probably say that the Alban Berg, Takacs, and other European quartets have a pretty good understanding of this music. I have not heard the Borodins in recent years - I only remember the old Borodins who were superb at Russian music but less satisfying in Beethoven and other Germananic classics.