BBC MM CD Respighi / Prokofiev (November 2011)

[Guest]

Just listened to Respighi's Roman Festivals and some parts of a suite from Prokofiev's Cinderella.

The recording is horribly unbalanced IMO and lacks presence in the hight - it sounds like listening behind a veil or a thick curtain. To hear what I mean only listen to the beginning of track 4 (Epiphany).
The playing/performance itself is not excellent either.
Why o why a CD of this performance with this recording quality?

They really seem to have lost the plot at the Beeb - is this the new recording and broadcast quality we suffered from during the Proms now extended to BBC MM CDs?

[amateur51]

Thanks for the alert, Roehre - how disappointing

[Simon B]

NB - I haven't heard the CD in question, not as such anyway, but...

Re the Respighi, I'm assuming this is a release of the performance given at the 2009 Proms. So it literally is a case of the broadcast quality of the Proms being extended to BBC MM CDs. However - the sound quality on the original TV broadcast (which I watched many times) was about as good as any relay from the RAH ever is. In this case, pretty good actually. It might have got mangled somewhere along the line before ending up on CD I suppose...

As to the performance, I couldn't disagree more. I was at the concert and it was a viscerally exciting richly coloured blast. Adrenaline and unashamed garishness are 9/10ths of the battle in this this piece IMO, and that's what we got. There may have been technical slips - hardly surprising given that this is the NYO (of whom I'm not always a fan - of the results rather than the endeavour) we're talking about. I appreciate that these are more of a problem with repeated listening to a recording, but I'd still rather have energy than perfection in this glorious racket any day.

As to why this recording? Presumably it's the connection with the cover story on Vasily Petrenko. They are essentialy giving the CD away when it comes down to it, so do you really expect studio quality recordings every time?

And in any case, given than the BBCMM cover CDs are usually releases of recordings previously made for BBC broadcast, how many alternatives for Feste Romane are there? It's a rarely performed piece, partially due to being less regarded than the other parts of the Roman trilogy and partially due to the cost of all those extra brass and percussion players. As far as I know there've been 2 live performances in 15 years recorded by the beeb. This one and the BBC Phil/Noseda from about 5 years back which may have been more accurate than the NYO (as you'd expect from first rate pros) but was nowhere near as thrilling.

[Ariosto]

They really seem to have lost the plot at the Beeb - is this the new recording and broadcast quality we suffered from during the Proms now extended to BBC MM CDs?

They certainly have lost the plot. I sometimes wonder if it's the tea lady making decisions about New Generation Artistes ... some of them are dire. I heard a quartette today playing Schubert (Escher Quartette) and they boldly announced the were NGA's - and OK - technically passable but an awful sound and musically as dead as a dodo.

Last night an old lot of New Generation Artistes - the Belcea Quartette - played at the Wigmore 'all (Live). Some jolly Beethoven. It wasn't very jolly good.

[amateur51]

Last night an old lot of New Generation Artistes - the Belcea Quartette - played at the Wigmore 'all (Live). Some jolly Beethoven. It wasn't very jolly good.

The line-up has changed since the Belcea's were NGAs, I think Ariosto

[Ariosto]

The line-up has changed since the Belcea's were NGAs, I think Ariosto

Hi AM51. Of course you are right, and I've heard them before and since. The new second fiddle is a huge improvement on the last one, and he played the best last night in my opinion. Ms Belcea (who I usually like) had a bad night, and the viola too (who I have liked in the past) was in the same state, and well, the cellist I never like. (The original cellist was far superior).

The Beeb managed to get a bathroom sound, but then the Wigmore 'all has a terrible acoustic as we all know!!

[salymap]

I've just listened to the Respighi Roman Festivals. What a disappoinment this CD is so far.

[Serial_Apologist]

Wasn't the Feste Romana a tribute to Mussolini? Or have I been misinformed?

[Jasmine Bassett]

I was listening to the Prokofiev last night and the balance was so left heavy all the instruments seem to have shifted over to the left hand side of the stage.

Before anyone comments - other CD's sound fine.

[BBMmk2]

Just hearing the cd now. Not one of the best recordings so far. Its more of the quality of the sound more than anything, imo. I can tell that the palying is pretty well top drawer though.

[Simon B]

Though I don't subscribe to BBCMM a family member does. Given the comments on this thread, I've now borrowed the CD and had a listen...

What the *$&% have they done to this CD?! I'd go further than others above. The sound quality is abysmal. The Respighi is particularly dismal. I stand by what I said above about the original broadcast sounding pretty good (and the live experience being a thrilling racket, whatever dubious associations the piece might or might not have). It sounded nothing like this shambles.

There was a previous BBCMM CD (Shostakovich PC and symphony #15, BBCPO/Sinaisky) where they admitted the post-production of the CD had been messed up. One channel was 3dB down on the other - thus skewing the balance and yielding a very odd timbre. Replacement CDs were issued to those who requested them.

Listening to this sonic disaster I'd not be surprised if something has gone horribly wrong in post-processing here too. Rather than a simple imbalance it sounds more like someone has been re-mixing a multi-mic recording (with risible results). Alternatively, I suspect that an anti-alias (lowpass) filter may have been applied at completely the wrong frequency, but don't have time to check the CD on a spectrum analyser to look for evidence. Either way, it's dreadful.

I've just found the maestrocam version of this performance is still available: http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2009/broa...ocam2_respighi

The sound quality on this is still in the pretty horrible category - the audio has inevitably been compressed to death, and I'm listening on a cheap computer and earphones. But it's so much better than the awful CD. Something has clearly gone very wrong.

[Petrushka]

Though I don't subscribe to BBCMM a family member does. Given the comments on this thread, I've now borrowed the CD and had a listen...

What the *$&% have they done to this CD?! I'd go further than others above. The sound quality is abysmal. The Respighi is particularly dismal. I stand by what I said above about the original broadcast sounding pretty good (and the live experience being a thrilling racket, whatever dubious associations the piece might or might not have). It sounded nothing like this shambles.

There was a previous BBCMM CD (Shostakovich PC and symphony #15, BBCPO/Sinaisky) where they admitted the post-production of the CD had been messed up. One channel was 3dB down on the other - thus skewing the balance and yielding a very odd timbre. Replacement CDs were issued to those who requested them.

Listening to this sonic disaster I'd not be surprised if something has gone horribly wrong in post-processing here too. Rather than a simple imbalance it sounds more like someone has been re-mixing a multi-mic recording (with risible results). Alternatively, I suspect that an anti-alias (lowpass) filter may have been applied at completely the wrong frequency, but don't have time to check the CD on a spectrum analyser to look for evidence. Either way, it's dreadful.

I've just found the maestrocam version of this performance is still available: http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2009/broa...ocam2_respighi

The sound quality on this is still in the pretty horrible category - the audio has inevitably been compressed to death, and I'm listening on a cheap computer and earphones. But it's so much better than the awful CD. Something has clearly gone very wrong.

I have the CD but haven't found time to listen yet. Has anyone contacted BBCMM?

[Dave2002]

I'm wondering about this CD. I've tried listening on different equipment, and at relatively high volume on good equipment it's not too bad, though maybe the dynamic range/balance is all wrong. At lower volume levels it does seem relatively poor, but to check I tried comparing with other recordings. Many recordings don't sound so good at lower volume levels - not just this one. The Prokofiev pieces seem less muddy, though perhaps that's because the recorded level of the Respighi items was lower (yes, really) - as some of those Respighi pieces are notoriously likely to overload recording equipment. Turn the volume up high in the Respighi and they might not sound so bad (you'll just go deaf instead, which might solve your problem!). Curiously reminiscent of VW in places. The string tone is fairly poor I'd say in Feste Romane.

I'm just not sure. Now that other board members have put into my mind the notion that it's not a good recording I find it hard to be sure. As I say, at higher volume levels (which you may not wish to try) you might find it more acceptable. I do think there's been spotlighting, and tinkering with the balance, which does not favour the string section, but brings the woodwind out more.

[Dave2002]

PS to above.

I remember a long while ago reading a review of Ormandy's recording of the Feste Romane (can't find it in the Gramophone archive) in which the reviewer commented that he couldn't understand why anyone would want a recording of such a brash piece. Out of curiosity I've just listened to Ormandy's - it's good, and brighter than the BBC MM recording. For a stunning recording try De Priest's recording with the Oregon SO - that's just amazing - with a very obvious and loud organ part.

Recording quality is an issue, but the Respighi pieces are very loud - and it seems likely that they'll lose impact if not played at fairly high levels. I did find that I was really getting into Petrenko's version towards the end, and the applause seemed well deserved.

[johnb]

I haven't heard this CD but I do remember that many (probably most) of the R3 broadcasts of the 2009 Proms suffered from excessive and very muddy bass. The balance used for that year's Proms was very noticeably different from any other R3 broadcast that I cam remember.

If I have time I will give the original broadcast a listen (even if it is rather masochistic when I have the Muti recording at hand).