Mahler 4 - Chamber version

[Dave2002]

This afternoon on R3 there is a chamber version of Mahler 4. Is this a radical thing, or simply a slight cut down in resources? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014fg7d

[mercia]

I believe I heard the announcer say that the arranger (Erwin Stein) was a friend of Mahler, Schoenberg and Britten. More than that I know nothing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/nr9x

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Stein

well, well, well, Erwin's son-in-law was Jeremy Thorpe

[pastoralguy]

First of all, there is a very good recording of this arrangement with Douglas Boyd and the Manchester Camerata. The soprano soloist is a young Kate Royal.

The recording is very good but it is a live cd where I suspect the balances have been fiddled with in the editing. Why do I say that? Well, it was done as part of this years Edinburgh Festival by members of the Bamberg S.O.

Hearing it live in concert was interesting but not really a satisfying event. The scoring is

Violin 1
Violin 2
Viola
'cello
double bass
flute
oboe
clarinet
3 (!) percussionists
1 piano, 4 hands
harmonium.

In concert, inevitably, the strings sound very undernourished even after the ear has 'adjusted' to the different sonorities. Although the leader was a fine player you could hear he was struggling to be heard against the full ensemble a lot of the time. The solos in the 2nd movt. were nerve wracking as he was constantly switching fiddles for the scordatura instrument. The 3rd movt. was crying out for a big string sound which the quintet did their best to make but largely failed. The conductor should have reduced the amount of sound the other players made to give the strings an equal chance.

The oboe player was way too loud and seemed to be under the impression she was playing an oboe concerto. The clarinet took a lot of the horn solos (to good effect). The role of the pianos and harmonium was, inevitably, to fill in the harmony.

So, all in all, an interesting experience that few in the audience (at least who I spoke to) seemed to be willing to hear again.

[Chris Newman]

I have heard the Douglas Boyd recording on the radio. Like Schonberg's reduction of Das Lied von der Erde, it is a miracle of great beauty. Erwin Stein was a member of the (Viennese) Society for Private Performances along with Schonberg, Mahler, Berg and Webern who made small arrangements of huge works that were thought unlikely to get perfrmances.

Stein was a fine pianist and a friend of Prokofiev and Britten. He married Sophie Bachmann and their daughter was the pianist Marion Stein who married the 7th Earl of Harewood, George Lascelles, and after their divorce Marion married Jeremy Thorpe, one-time Liberal politician and leader.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Nowadays, Marion is probably best know as joint author (with Fanny Waterman) of some highly sucessful piano teaching publications.

[Chris Newman]

I have heard the Douglas Boyd recording on the radio. Like Schonberg's reduction of Das Lied von der Erde, it is a miracle of great beauty. Erwin Stein was a member of the (Viennese) Society for Private Performances along with Schonberg, Mahler, Berg and Webern who made small arrangements of huge works that were thought unlikely to get perfrmances.

Stein was a fine pianist and a friend of Prokofiev and Britten. He married Sophie Bachmann and their daughter was the pianist Marion Stein who married the 7th Earl of Harewood, George Lascelles, and after their divorce Marion married Jeremy Thorpe, one-time Liberal politician and leader.

Of course, writing off the top of my head, I inadvertently made Mahler a member of the Society of Private Performances which was really a post WWI organisation. As he died in 1911 by the time of its formation he would have heard its valiant efforts to promote his music from a very lofty height.