Performing from memory

[ardcarp]

As something of an aside, Mark Bebbington usually has the dots on the music stand when he gives a recital. Nothing wrong with that at all, but not common with performing solo pianists.

[Bryn]

As something of an aside, Mark Bebbington usually has the dots on the music stand when he gives a recital. Nothing wrong with that at all, but not common with performing solo pianists.

You clearly have a very different experience of "performing solo pianists" than I do. In my experience, the majority use a score and page-turner.

[ardcarp]

Pianists who are accompanying or taking part in an ensemble invariably do. But it is very unusual for a top-rate solo pianist to use music on the concert platform. It is certainly not the way music colleges prepare students...and have you really seen the dots on a music stand for a concerto? It never fails to amaze me how many millions of 'bits' of information reside in the brain of soloists. The facility is often referred to as 'muscular memory' but under the intense pressure of a live concert performance, I think they have to rely on more than just the fingers doing it on their own because of countless repetitions and hours of practice.

You must surely be aware of this from watching BBC Young Musician or Proms piano recitals? It applies to most other instrumentalists too....but strangely, it is a rarer occurrence for organ recitalists.

[Goon525]

I do recall seeing Clifford Curzon give Mozart concerto performances with score and page turner as part of the act. (He was rather good, by the way.)

[Master Jacques]

Pianists who are accompanying or taking part in an ensemble invariably do. But it is very unusual for a top-rate solo pianist to use music on the concert platform. It is certainly not the way music colleges prepare students...and have you really seen the dots on a music stand for a concerto? It never fails to amaze me how many millions of 'bits' of information reside in the brain of soloists. The facility is often referred to as 'muscular memory' but under the intense pressure of a live concert performance, I think they have to rely on more than just the fingers doing it on their own because of countless repetitions and hours of practice.

I'm not sure about any of this. Two things: learning a piece of music is really no different to an actor learning a part in a play, its about the intellect and memory through repetition, with "muscle memory" not playing much of a part (if such a thing really exists, somehow quasi-independent of the brain, which I'd question).

Second thing: just because a performer has the score in front of them - which I've seen many concert pianists and solo instrumentalists do over the years - doesn't mean that they "know it" any less well than colleagues who've dispensed with the printed dots on the platform. In my experience, it's a matter of personal choice, not a sign of laziness (not that you are suggesting that's the case, I know) or inferior preparation.

Last time I saw a pianist playing this Poulenc concerto live, they were using a score. And the performance was none the worse for it.

[Sir Velo]

Pianists who are accompanying or taking part in an ensemble invariably do. But it is very unusual for a top-rate solo pianist to use music on the concert platform.

Unusual, but having had the experience of watching Sviatoslav Richter perform in Chichester cathedral, in 1988 (89?) not unheard of. The performances of Schubert D894, Schumann Nachtstucke are etched in the memory.

[Bryn]

I'm not sure about any of this. Two things: learning a piece of music is really no different to an actor learning a part in a play, its about the intellect and memory through repetition, with "muscle memory" not playing much of a part (if such a thing really exists, somehow quasi-independent of the brain, which I'd question).

Second thing: just because a performer has the score in front of them - which I've seen many concert pianists and solo instrumentalists do over the years - doesn't mean that they "know it" any less well than colleagues who've dispensed with the printed dots on the platform. In my experience, it's a matter of personal choice, not a sign of laziness (not that you are suggesting that's the case, I know) or inferior preparation.

Last time I saw a pianist playing this Poulenc concerto live, they were using a score. And the performance was none the worse for it.

Quite. I have attended many performances of concertante works for piano and orchestra where the pianist made use of a score (with or without an attendant page-turner) including some at the Proms. For some pianists, the score may be simply there an insurance policy, I also recall a Proms performance (I forget which work and the musicians were involved) during which the conductor, had to briefly show his score to the pianist, (playing without a score), as a prompt.

[Maclintick]

I do recall seeing Clifford Curzon give Mozart concerto performances with score and page turner as part of the act. (He was rather good, by the way.)

Yes, I also remember seeing him play K.595 (or it may have been K.537) at a Prom in the late 70s/early 80s with a score, which reminds me that Sir Adrian Boult, who, when asked by a music journalist why he conducted well-known pieces with the aid of the dots, when many of his illustrious contemporaries dispensed with the score during performance, shrugged his shoulders and replied "Because I can read one, dear boy" Ouch !

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Memorising of music is a very mixed convention. One of the techniques used is hours of memorising the dots on the page away from the instrument, before actually learning to play it.

For singers, they appear just to follow conventions. Clearly, opera singers can’t appear on stage clutching a score, but elsewhere, it shouldn’t be a problem.
When I did Grade 8 Singing at the grand old age of 58, I had to sing everything from memory, apart from solos from oratorios (as “that’s the way it’s done”.

Some choirs sing without music, though these tend to the one whose members mostly can’t read music. Occasionally mainstream choirs are asked to sing the odd item from memory, but the result can be messy.

The Aurora Orchestra makes a big thing about playing from memory (and the BBC presenters hype it up even more) but I would prefer to be impressed by their standard of performance, rather than getting excited about their ability to remember every note. The only real advantage of orchestras playing from memory is that half of each string section doesn’t drop out every time there’s a page turn.

Returning to choirs singing from memory, there was a Mahler symphony TV broadcast at last year’s Proms. Most of the choir sang without music but seemed rather diffident, so the experiment wasn’t much of a success. Those who’d sneaked a score in seem far more confident.

[ardcarp]

I'm sorry to go om about this, but in the vast majority of recitals by top-rate solo pianists, the 'score' is not on the music desk. Furthermore it is usual for the music desk to be removed from the Model D , or in this case from Angela Hewitt's Fazioli:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRB5_Gt98P4

[Master Jacques]

I'm sorry to go om about this, but in the vast majority of recitals by top-rate solo pianists, the 'score' is not on the music desk. Furthermore it is usual for the music desk to be removed from the Model D , or in this case from Angela Hewitt's Fazioli:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRB5_Gt98P4

Thank you, Ardcarp. We seemed to have moved rather a long way from Poulenc's concerto - just as (I am tempted to say, and probably only for me) Angela Hewitt has moved rather a long way from the score of Bach's Goldberg Variations. Perhaps having the notes in front of her might have curbed some of her stranger whimsicalities, and that oddly intense staring into outer space. Nice piano though.

Actually now I think about it, there is a relevance here to the Poulenc. One of the features Tacchino brings out so well, in his recording, is the debunking of the idea of Bach as some sort of Holy Writ - by setting it out alongside street music (and a lot of other things) Poulenc lets us know that it's just music after all, and all the more joyous for that.

[Ein Heldenleben]

As something of an aside, Mark Bebbington usually has the dots on the music stand when he gives a recital. Nothing wrong with that at all, but not common with performing solo pianists.

I’ve seen Mark perform four times and he never used a score. He’s a remarkably game fellow - cheerfully playing the Liszt Rigoletto Paraphrase (rather well) on the somewhat tired piano at our local church. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a major pianist play with a score live - though towards the end of his career Richter did. The exception would be chamber and piano duet performances where very few play from memory. I don’t go to much contemporary performance where playing from score is more common.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Memorising of music is a very mixed convention. One of the techniques used is hours of memorising the dots on the page away from the instrument, before actually learning to play it.

For singers, they appear just to follow conventions. Clearly, opera singers can’t appear on stage clutching a score, but elsewhere, it shouldn’t be a problem.
When I did Grade 8 Singing at the grand old age of 58, I had to sing everything from memory, apart from solos from oratorios (as “that’s the way it’s done”.

Some choirs sing without music, though these tend to the one whose members mostly can’t read music. Occasionally mainstream choirs are asked to sing the odd item from memory, but the result can be messy.

The Aurora Orchestra makes a big thing about playing from memory (and the BBC presenters hype it up even more) but I would prefer to be impressed by their standard of performance, rather than getting excited about their ability to remember every note. The only real advantage of orchestras playing from memory is that half of each string section doesn’t drop out every time there’s a page turn.

Returning to choirs singing from memory, there was a Mahler symphony TV broadcast at last year’s Proms. Most of the choir sang without music but seemed rather diffident, so the experiment wasn’t much of a success. Those who’d sneaked a score in seem far more confident.

Louis Kentner used to learn a piece off score before playing it. Whether he then played it from memory is not clear but it wouldn’t surprise me if he was capable of that. Some people’s sight reading is so good that they can almost imagine the piece in their head and then recreate it through the fingers. It’s said that Horowitz and Jin Ogdon could just about sight read anything.

[Maclintick]

Quite. I have attended many performances of concertante works for piano and orchestra where the pianist made use of a score (with or without an attendant page-turner) including some at the Proms.

And string soloists can make use of modern technology to perform with a score in circumstances where a page-turner would be, to put it mildly, an unwelcome distraction. I recall Tasmin Little performing Ligeti's violin concerto at the Proms with a stand-mounted I-Pad or similar device connected to a foot-pedal which enabled her to scroll to the next page with a single toe-tap.

[Lordgeous]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a major pianist play with a score live.

What about other keyboard players? Organists generally appear to use music, not sure about harpsichordists, though George Malcolm ALWAYS used music. Is it just a matter of convention? I remember Perlemuter in a RFH recital having a memory lapse and having to walk off stage to consult the score!