BBC Radio 3 in general

[edashtav]

Did you really mean 'evolve' ? Surely the general consensus of the word is that the evolved state is 'better'. I suggest that that can hardly be said of the current iterations of Radio 4 (of which I listen to less and less) or Radio 3 (of which I listen not at all now).

SA puts is far better than me.

Sure 'evolve' means a GRADUAL change, not necessarily for better or worse, Anastasius

Chemists use evolve differently: gas or heat may be evolved during chemical change. The result, in part, may have less entropy but that may be good, or bad.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Did you really mean 'evolve' ? Surely the general consensus of the word is that the evolved state is 'better'. I suggest that that can hardly be said of the current iterations of Radio 4 (of which I listen to less and less) or Radio 3 (of which I listen not at all now).

SA puts is far better than me.

I wouldn’t agree with that. There’s nothing moral about evolution. Evolution means the emergence of a species more suited to its environment : “ the survival of the fittest” in the sense of best adapted . Dragonflies haven’t evolved significantly in 250 million years but they are no “better “or “worse “ than homo sapiens - a mere 250,000 years.
To extend the evolution metaphor it could be argued that Radio 4 has merely adapted to the current world of contemporary educational and cultural standards and ditto Radio 3. The more interesting question is how we got to this state culturally - and for that I think you have to look at a society which is obsessed with money and ease of living to an extent scarcely conceivable 50 years ago.

[Anastasius]

I wouldn’t agree with that. There’s nothing moral about evolution. Evolution means the emergence of a species more suited to its environment : “ the survival of the fittest” in the sense of best adapted . Dragonflies haven’t evolved significantly in 250 million years but they are no “better “or “worse “ than homo sapiens - a mere 250,000 years.
To extend the evolution metaphor it could be argued that Radio 4 has merely adapted to the current world of contemporary educational and cultural standards and ditto Radio 3. The more interesting question is how we got to this state culturally - and for that I think you have to look at a society which is obsessed with money and ease of living to an extent scarcely conceivable 50 years ago.

I see where you are coming from. I did check my understanding as to the meaning of evolve before I posted and came to the conclusion that the meaning of 'evolve' is in the mind of each reader. For me 'evolve' means 'better' but I take your point.

I have a different take on 50 years ago and think 80 is more accurate. When I think back to what I was doing in 1974, and what was available, ease of living wasn't that bad TBH but I guess it depends on each person's point of reference.

[eighthobstruction]

....most things, for most people, are tranactionable and aspirational....most people don't want a heavy wooden tobacco coloured antique sofa, they want a soft vibrant adaptable IKEA type sofa that they may only keep for 10 years.............how did it get this way Boomers and GenX designed (society) it that way....- creating, making and selling what is in Vogue (that now has the rhythm people want)....To this I expect you to do the business of applying music /cultural /arts analogies in keeping with the demand ,supply theory I place before you....and to struggle (as with all you Mahler types) to understand what the hell I am talking about ....

....AND of course Boomer and GenX Economists (who might not see Arts as important)/ teachers/lecturers/media cultural stylists/radio /TV.....People have a world in their back pocket these days (and so do you if you wish -Spotify etc) that science and commerse promote...

[Ein Heldenleben]

....most things, for most people, are tranactionable and aspirational....most people don't want a heavy wooden tobacco coloured antique sofa, they want a soft vibrant adaptable IKEA type sofa that they may only keep for 10 years.............how did it get this way Boomers and GenX designed (society) it that way....- creating, making and selling what is in Vogue (that now has the rhythm people want)....To this I expect you to do the business of applying music /cultural /arts analogies in keeping with the demand ,supply theory I place before you....and to struggle (as with all you Mahler types) to understand what the hell I am talking about ....

Pop music like fashion is disposable because that’s what capitalism : constant churn and replacement and not necessarily with “better”:
Which it is why I still have vinyls , cassettes, an 18 year old Volvo, and a 50 year old hifi

[french frank]

I guess it depends on each person's point of reference.

That was my point. Some people listen to R3 more than they did, some listen to it less or not at all (you and I/me). From a narrow, personal point of view, I think Radio 3 is uninteresting and not worth my attention. But I live in the world as it is.

[Serial_Apologist]

....most things, for most people, are tranactionable and aspirational....most people don't want a heavy wooden tobacco coloured antique sofa, they want a soft vibrant adaptable IKEA type sofa that they may only keep for 10 years.............how did it get this way Boomers and GenX designed (society) it that way....- creating, making and selling what is in Vogue (that now has the rhythm people want)....To this I expect you to do the business of applying music /cultural /arts analogies in keeping with the demand ,supply theory I place before you....and to struggle (as with all you Mahler types) to understand what the hell I am talking about ....

Privatising the aspirational has been the main ideological fixing device of the capitalist class since mass consumerism after the postwar austerity phase prioritised provisionlity over sustainability, because that's the way the system operates (rather than "works"). As somebody put it at the moment it became clear to all but those believing in Fate that the multinantionals now had more power than national governments, nobody can be blamed any more because nobody is responsible.

[Serial_Apologist]

That was my point. Some people listen to R3 more than they did, some listen to it less or not at all (you and I/me). From a narrow, personal point of view, I think Radio 3 is uninteresting and not worth my attention. But I live in the world as it is.

That's the very point I was trying to get at in my previous post. The Powers That Be do not want people ideologically equipped with a wider frame of reference from which to deduce principles; values have to remain private, kept in the family, as people used to say, stopping at the front door - or garden gate, if you're lucky enough to have one.

[eighthobstruction]

.....and I know so many people (old and young) who prefer to approach the idea of being an individual /having an individualist profile - by living on their own....

....and to go back to earlier statements and points....very few people want to hear 2 bones being knocked together these days ....Generation StoneAge should not expect to get its own Sunday Afternoon request show....

[french frank]

That's the very point I was trying to get at in my previous post. The Powers That Be do not want people ideologically equipped with a wider frame of reference from which to deduce principles; values have to remain private, kept in the family, as people used to say, stopping at the front door - or garden gate, if you're lucky enough to have one.

Well, you've used terms like 'defeatist' and 'believing in Fate'. I take a more abstract view that capitalism is part of 'evolution' - societal evolution, but it's still a sort of law of the jungle. The powerful rule, the predators prey. Human beings aren't as a species inherently 'good' or 'bad'.

That's not a political theory: it's just an opinion, a personal approach.

[Anastasius]

....most things, for most people, are tranactionable and aspirational....most people don't want a heavy wooden tobacco coloured antique sofa, they want a soft vibrant adaptable IKEA type sofa that they may only keep for 10 years.............how did it get this way Boomers and GenX designed (society) it that way....- creating, making and selling what is in Vogue (that now has the rhythm people want)....To this I expect you to do the business of applying music /cultural /arts analogies in keeping with the demand ,supply theory I place before you....and to struggle (as with all you Mahler types) to understand what the hell I am talking about ....

....AND of course Boomer and GenX Economists (who might not see Arts as important)/ teachers/lecturers/media cultural stylists/radio /TV.....People have a world in their back pocket these days (and so do you if you wish -Spotify etc) that science and commerse promote...

Why single out Boomers and GenX? That's Generationist

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, you've used terms like 'defeatist' and 'believing in Fate'. I take a more abstract view that capitalism is part of 'evolution' - societal evolution, but it's still a sort of law of the jungle. The powerful rule, the predators prey. Human beings aren't as a species inherently 'good' or 'bad'.

That's not a political theory: it's just an opinion, a personal approach.

That's right - there's just one bit of the jigsaw that is missing! A lot follows from that, mind... the sources of that power, to what extent can it be checked, changed, re-directed, by whom and for what reasons, what or who stands in the way, how and why...

[french frank]

the sources of that power, to what extent can it be checked, changed, re-directed, by whom and for what reasons, what or who stands in the way, how and why...

That is a key question. I don't equate evolution with progress = improvement. If anything, I see and experience human beings regressing into wild beasts again. I would regard myself as a secular Christian, perhaps a religious socialist. I believe we are all equal and should share equally in the benefits available; and that we should treat everyone else with kindness and respect ... But realistically (and after years of questioning and challenging),I believe that the forces behind change are too strong for mere mortals to influence.

[vinteuil]

The individual doesn't have to think that way. Groups of individuals who don't think that way can act together to resist in whatever way seems possible. They succeed or they fail. Historically, such resistance movements are rare; and even rarer are the successes.

... and what would 'success' mean anyway?

As often I go back to the French Revolution - do we see the Terror, Napoleon, France post-1815, - as 'a success' in any way that the intellectuals and others behind 1789 might see it?

.

[eighthobstruction]

....well they won Euro's and World Cup a few year back....