Your Least Favourite Mahler Symphony?

[vinteuil]

The first 4 are OK, after that the neurosis, bombast and breast beating takes over. I think on the whole I prefer the song cycles, but Mahler's world will never be really mine.

Ferretfancy - most of the time that's what I feel too. The song-cycles are peerless, irreplaceable; the symphonies (for my sensibility) too often neurotic, bombastic, breast-beating: I have to be in a particular frame of mind to enjoy the necessary wallowing...

When I want a Mahler symphony without excessive wallowing - I enjoy the piano four hand transcriptions (Zemlinsky for the 6th; Casella for the 7th).

[Norfolk Born]

Ofca man - I think that the 'Minute' in the minute waltz is "my newt" rather than "minnit". It's a small waltz, not a sixty second one. Not to be used to time one's boiled eggs - for that, the recommendation is The Times crossword - if you like a soft-boiled egg

If it's 'My Newt', there's a good chance that Ken Livingstone will like it. As for The Times crossword...I have been known to complete it, but sadly never quickly enough to time anything smaller than a roast bison.

[Chris Newman]

The actual first question is very interesting because I have to confess that I have not put on or listened to a Mahler recording for a few years until listening to Bychkov's very, very fine Sixth at the the current Proms. I have heard live Mahler performances conducted by Klemperer, Haitink, Barbirolli, Schmidt-Isserstedt, Horenstein, de Burgos, David Oistrakh, Szell, Salonen, Otaaka, Schwartz, Kempe, Bernstein, Colin Davis, Neumann, Inbal, Maazel, and many others. I have reached that state where I need a break from Mahler. Too much of a good thing? I am not sure. I am sure that I will come back but after nearly 50 years my nerves need a rest.

[Op. XXXIX]

The first 4 are OK, after that the neurosis, bombast and breast beating takes over.

But I thought the 'neurosis, bombast and breast beating' are what makes Mahler so popular? This composer 'speaks' to so many people's needs, and good on them.

Personally it's all okay. Mahler is fun, and if there exists a greater orchestrator, let me know! But ultimately Mahler's loudest climaxes remind me more of a spoiled child throwing a tantrum at the mall. Very profound for the child of course.

[Colonel Danby]

It's very difficult to pick out one Mahler Symphony that I find least successful: Nos 2 and 3 are definitely my favourites, and I suppose 6, though it is not an easy listen. And the Rondo Burleske 3rd movement of No 9 is quite horrible: he seems to be at the very edge of sanity. So, some Mahler is quite difficult, and I could not listen to him all the time, but occasionally all his output has value, and I love them all in their different ways.

[Norfolk Born]

It's very difficult to pick out one Mahler Symphony that I find least successful: Nos 2 and 3 are definitely my favourites, and I suppose 6, though it is not an easy listen. And the Rondo Burleske 3rd movement of No 9 is quite horrible: he seems to be at the very edge of sanity. So, some Mahler is quite difficult, and I could not listen to him all the time, but occasionally all his output has value, and I love them all in their different ways.

Your use of 'least successful' rather than 'least favourite' is very apt, if I may say so. I think it's more helpful to discuss why certain compositions don't 'work', either in themselves or for certain people, rather than why people like, or don't like, them. I think that No. 7 must be a strong contender for Mahler's least successful symphony because, to my admittedly untrained ear, it really doesn't hang together. I'm not really sure what the relationship - emotionally or musically - is, for example, between the two 'Nachtmusik' movements and what precedes and follows each.

[Bryn]

O.k., for me it's the 4th, a wonderful work which I am unlikely ever to tire of hearing, but it's still my least favourite of the 11. As for least successful, it has to the the 10th, since he failed to finish work on it.

[Ventilhorn]

Your use of 'least successful' rather than 'least favourite' is very apt, if I may say so. I think it's more helpful to discuss why certain compositions don't 'work', either in themselves or for certain people, rather than why people like, or don't like, them. I think that No. 7 must be a strong contender for Mahler's least successful symphony because, to my admittedly untrained ear, it really doesn't hang together. I'm not really sure what the relationship - emotionally or musically - is, for example, between the two 'Nachtmusik' movements and what precedes and follows each.

I'm the first to admit personal bias in answer to this question, but I would say that Mahler 8 - and Das Lied (which is a symphony in all but name, like it or not) take joint first place by a country mile among the symphonies that I never wish to hear again.

VH

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I have reached that state where I need a break from Mahler. Too much of a good thing? I am not sure. I am sure that I will come back but after nearly 50 years my nerves need a rest.

Chris, I agree. I have an abundance of Mahler recordings on my shelves, yet only listen to them rarely. I am surprised by the frequency with which some message-boarders here listen to Mahler; I need to be in the right mood - not that familiarity breeds contempt, but the concentration required and emotional impact of some of the symphonies are not something for everyday listening. I reviewed Jansons' Mahler 3 a few months ago, which required close study of several other versions, and haven't felt the need for a 'Mahler fix' since, although reading the positive comments about Bychkov's Proms 6 makes me inclined to download for later listening.

A 'least favourite' Mahler symphony? Any idea of a least favourite probably reveals more about the listener than Mahler, but I do have a problem with No.8. It's a work I just don't fully comprehend, the two 'halves' not really hanging together - for me, at least. Another problem is that I approach it with high expectations - the opening minute is stunning, but nothing else quite lives up to that opening blast, especially if the soloists are variable. There are other works where the musical highlight occurs almost at the beginning (Bizet's Pearl Fishers, for example), but the opening notes...? Also sprach Zarathustra is the only other I can think of at the moment; there must be more...

[Mahlerei]

Interesting comments, all. Have heard a number of Mahler recordings as part of this double centenary and also feel 'Mahlered out'. Not for too long, I hope.

All these symphonies have the power to astound (even if they don't do so every time). I am puzzled by the general dislike of No 8, which really does 'work' for me. Structurally it shouldn't, but in the right hands it's GM at his most inspired. The one that troubles me most - for reasons I can't quite fathom - is No. 9, which I listen to least of all.

[BBMmk2]

I love all the Mahler symphonies. I need a Mahler fix fairly often! I have numerous recordings on my shelves to. There is one that negates and that is the 7th. I have amongst others, the famous Abbado one on DG, That to me is probably thes best recording of all!

[pilamenon]

I am puzzled by the general dislike of No 8, which really does 'work' for me. Structurally it shouldn't, but in the right hands it's GM at his most inspired. The one that troubles me most - for reasons I can't quite fathom - is No. 9, which I listen to least of all.

That's exactly how I feel, though No 8 being quite different to the others, it is perhaps understandable that some Mahler fans don't quite get on with it. My least favourite Mahler movement is the finale of No 7, which sounds overblown and somehow spoils the mood of the rest of the work.

[Serial_Apologist]

My least favourite Mahler movement is the finale of No 7, which sounds overblown and somehow spoils the mood of the rest of the work.

I totally agree

[makropulos]

I totally agree

Very interesting. I can see why you both (pilamenon and S-A) think that, but I've never found it overblown - I think it can be quite fun in the right hands (and I think perhaps it needs to be - otherwise the overblown risk is certainly there). It's maybe hard to bring it off. The most successful performances I've heard of it have gone at it hammer and tongs (so to speak) - and above all at quite a quick tempo. So I've tended to think of it as a good movement that's hard to bring off, rather than a less good one that occasionally works.

And now I'm not sure if any of the above makes much sense! Getting late...

[Petrushka]

Very interesting. I can see why you both (pilamenon and S-A) think that, but I've never found it overblown - I think it can be quite fun in the right hands (and I think perhaps it needs to be - otherwise the overblown risk is certainly there). It's maybe hard to bring it off. The most successful performances I've heard of it have gone at it hammer and tongs (so to speak) - and above all at quite a quick tempo. So I've tended to think of it as a good movement that's hard to bring off, rather than a less good one that occasionally works.

And now I'm not sure if any of the above makes much sense! Getting late...

I'd agree. Bernstein brings it off by playing it for all it's worth. The only Mahler movement that fails for me is the one before it, Nachtmusik 2. Always glad to reach thst finale!