Vienna Philharmonic New Year's Concert 2023

[Dave2002]

[QUOTE=Ein Heldenleben;903986]

Pretty much like conducting a ballet perf but this time the conductor has to work to the dancers and not the other way round!

I thought that mostly in ballets the dancers and choreographers have priority over the conductor and musicians - which is perhaps one reason why I often prefer concert performances of ballet music. Clearly if a conductor becomes too energetic or dynamic dancing might become next to impossible, but having rigid beats so as to accommodate the dancers seems wrong to me too. Is it not possible for dancers to be flexible musically as well as physically?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I thought that mostly in ballets the dancers and choreographers have priority over the conductor and musicians - which is perhaps one reason why I often prefer concert performances of ballet music. Clearly if a conductor becomes too energetic or dynamic dancing might become next to impossible, but having rigid beats so as to accommodate the dancers seems wrong to me too. Is it not possible for dancers to be flexible musically as well as physically?

Been to quite a few ballet performances where it’s quite clear the conductor has a different idea of how things should go than the dancers. My post meant that in the case of the New Years Day concert the live conductor has to more or less follow what the dancers have done on tape which shouldn’t be a problem as they will be dancing to another previous recording made by the conductor played back on location through loud speakers.
Incidentally I’ve been to several Matthew Bourne ballets where the dancers dance to a tape of an orchestra . I think this is a shame because it allows no musical flexibility on the night and also does quite a few musos out of a gig. Also amplified orchestras sound awful. I’m amazed he gets it past the MU really.
I guess in an ideal ballet performance there’s some kind of magical alchemy between baton wielder , orchestra and dancers so that it’s not clear who is leading things.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I found it very interesting to have all the unfamiliar pieces in the programme particularly since, as Petrushka says, even if he didn't have as many hits as Johann II, Josef's output actually contains a larger proportion of memorable and individual pieces.

I wonder why everyone is so down on FW-M, not just as a conductor of this concert but generally. I hadn't seen him conduct before and I had the strong impression that he conceived his function as getting out of the way of the music and letting the orchestra do what they do best. What more could you want?

FW-M’s earlier NYD concerts contained a bigger proportion of ‘new’ pieces than most other conductors, but he really went to town this time.

It’s interesting to hear the difference in the Viennese lilt between different conductors. It seems to get stronger year by year (though it was almost absent in the Harnoncourt concerts).

[pastoralguy]

[QUOTE=Dave2002;904016]

I thought that mostly in ballets the dancers and choreographers have priority over the conductor and musicians - which is perhaps one reason why I often prefer concert performances of ballet music. Clearly if a conductor becomes too energetic or dynamic dancing might become next to impossible, but having rigid beats so as to accommodate the dancers seems wrong to me too. Is it not possible for dancers to be flexible musically as well as physically?

Wasn’t there a story about Sir Thomas Beecham conducing a very fast performance for the Russian Ballet and then turning to the players and saying ‘That’ll make the little buggers hop?!’

[oddoneout]

Incidentally I’ve been to several Matthew Bourne ballets where the dancers dance to a tape of an orchestra . I think this is a shame because it allows no musical flexibility on the night and also does quite a few musos out of a gig. Also amplified orchestras sound awful. I’m amazed he gets it past the MU really.
I guess in an ideal ballet performance there’s some kind of magical alchemy between baton wielder , orchestra and dancers so that it’s not clear who is leading things.

The Matthew Bourne/recorded orchestra arguments go back a good few years; these are 18 years apart https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...nes-75094.html

https://www.timeout.com/london/dance/matthew-bournes-sleeping-beauty-1

I've been to two MB performances and although I would rather have had a live orchestra the "artificial" version was fine - certainly not awful, possibly because of the quality of equipment and technical expertise at the venue?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

[QUOTE=pastoralguy;904025]

Wasn’t there a story about Sir Thomas Beecham conducing a very fast performance for the Russian Ballet and then turning to the players and saying ‘That’ll make the little buggers hop?!’

As a one-time dance school pianist, I suggest Sir Thomas’s ploy would have helped the dancers. More difficulties arise when the music is on the slow side. Gravity is the true culprit. You can’t fall back to earth in slow motion.

[Alison]

Thought FW-M did well today. He seemed relaxed and you felt the musicians were really responding to his direction.
The new pieces are fine if they receive good advocacy. Will look forward to the CD as usual.

[Petrushka]

Thought FW-M did well today. He seemed relaxed and you felt the musicians were really responding to his direction.
The new pieces are fine if they receive good advocacy. Will look forward to the CD as usual.

Although I recorded it to my hard drive, I'll still be getting both the CD and DVD of this one. I've just re-played my recording and have to say it was even better second time round. Definitely a winner amongst those NYDCs of the past three or four years. More new pieces please!

[Alison]

Although I recorded it to my hard drive, I'll still be getting both the CD and DVD of this one. I've just re-played my recording and have to say it was even better second time round. Definitely a winner amongst those NYDCs of the past three or four years. More new pieces please!

The Suppe overture was a good choice. As for Aquarellen, preliminary research shows this was played in 1991 (Abbado) and 2002 (Ozawa). Pet may know of other years. Perhaps the highlight of this concert.

[oddoneout]

Just been reminded of something I learned this morning thanks to Petroc - Vivienne Westwood designed the current VP concert uniform, and also some of the ballet costumes in past years. Topical if slightly off topic.

[Petrushka]

The Suppe overture was a good choice. As for Aquarellen, preliminary research shows this was played in 1991 (Abbado) and 2002 (Ozawa). Pet may know of other years. Perhaps the highlight of this concert.

According to the VPO concert archive Aquarellen Walzer appeared in 1946 (Krips), 1950 (Krauss), 1956, 1961, 1966, 1970, 1974 (all Boskovsky), 1980 (Maazel), 1991 (Abbado), 2002 (Ozawa) and today. A frequent visitor, then, but not heard for 21 years. I first heard it from 1974 and then onwards and got the Boskovsky recording in 1975, the same day, as it happens, that I got his recording of Perlen der Liebe also heard today.

[gradus]

A more interesting programme than usual. Why this conductor attracts opprobrium beats me. The ballet costumes particularly in the first choreographed piece had a distinctly English style, shades of Mr and Mrs Andrews.

[kernelbogey]

...Why this conductor attracts opprobrium beats me.

Is it all down to that witty but cruel pun on his name - allegedly coined by an LSO player?

[pastoralguy]

Is it all down to that witty but cruel pun on his name - allegedly coined by an LSO player?

First trumpet of the London Philharmonic, I believe. He did apologise to the maestro later.

[hmvman]

A more interesting programme than usual. Why this conductor attracts opprobrium beats me.

Me too, but I've seen elsewhere some negative comments already about next year's conductor. I think it must be part of the New Year tradition! Anyway, full marks to FW-M for this year's programme.