Sir Charles Groves

[Roehre]

More to come tomorrow.
VH

Looking forward to that, Ventilhorn

[amateur51]

Priceless VH!

[Chris Newman]

CG Well, we were doing all right until we were approaching this roundabout, just before Axminster. Arthur said "which way?" and I answered "Straight across". So he drove straight over the roundabout and bounced off the other side!
I think I'll just go and sit down for ten minutes.

More to come tomorrow.

Wonderful story, VH. Encore!!!

bws Chris.

[Barbirollians]

Great story VH .

[BBMmk2]

Looking forward to the next episode!

[Ventilhorn]

Looking forward to the next episode!

Scottish National Orchestra - Alexander Gibson
Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra - John Pritchard
Hallé Orchestra - John Barbirolli
CBSO - Hugo Rignold
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra - Charles Groves

These were not "Chief" conductors - they were the conductors of the main provincial symphony orchestras.

They didn't keep disappearing for weeks on end to conduct their "other" orchestras in Sweden or Canada or wherever; they stayed with the one band and imposed their style of interpretation upon the players.

So it was easy to recognise any orchestra by its sound (and also the playing of its principals, who were long term fixtures and not playing "musical chairs" as they do today).

However, these conductors were handicapped by lack of rehearsal time in their concert preparation and were frustrated by the amount of rehearsals given to the occasional guest conductor; who might demand (and get) 12 hours of preparation for a single performance where the incumbant was restricted to three hours for almost any programme.

I recall an occasion when, due to someone's stupidity, we accepted an engagement to give a concert in Wolverhampton. The allocated rehearsal time was "2 hours on arrival"
The programme?

Piano Concerto Nº 3 - Rachmaninoff (Peter Katin)
Symphony Nº 4 - Vaughan Williams.

The concerto took up the first hour and we then had an hour remaining to prepare a most difficult symphony which at least a third of the orchestra had never previously encountered.

And Charles Groves did it!
The audience were satisfied and the write-ups were glowing. I can't imagine that a Dorati or Solti would even have got through the first movement in that time.
As he said at the time: "As any watchmaker will tell you. Don't ever start to take something apart if you don't have time to put it back together again."

Lack of rehearsal was one of the problems for a conductor who, at that time, had no Assistant Conductor to look after the schools concerts and also had to bow to the wishes of our main benefactor, the Arts Council, in the matter of programme content; being obliged to conduct works for which they had no empathy or interest.

And speaking of watches; here is my next anecdote:

We were rehearsing a concert of contemporary music by British composers for an Arts Council sponsored concert in the Royal Festival Hall. It was the sort of music that made the works of Alban Berg and Witold Lutoslawski sound positively baroque.
The orchestra was becoming increasingly restless.

“I don't mind it when you look at your watches,” CG expostulated. “It's when you shake them and then put them to your ears that I take exception!”

I'll see what else I can muster for my next post.

VH

[amateur51]

Loved the watchmaker story, VH

He sounds to have been a charmingly practical man

[salymap]

Good morning VH. It seems there is a book waiting to be written here. It's never too late to be a best-selling author. Bernard Shore The Orchestra speaks Gerald MooreAm I too loud? A little book of Beecham Stories that I own. Just a thought.

[Roslynmuse]

Groves was the conductor of the first 'real' orchestral concert I ever went to (I'd previously been to a schools afternoon concert) - RLPO, May 1976, Vivaldi Four Seasons and Beethoven 6. Soloist was Manoug Parikian although it should have been Salvatore Accardo. It was broadcast live on R3 - I wonder if the tapes still exist? Perhaps not the most exciting programme, but for me at that time it was a turning point. I saw a handful of other concerts with him - most memorable was Elgar's The Black Knight, recorded for EMI at the same time. Favourite recordings - Delius Sea Drift and Paris. He always seemed a real gentleman - avuncular is the mot juste, I think.

[Ventilhorn]

Loved the watchmaker story, VH

He sounds to have been a charmingly practical man

Everything must come to an end sometime and I think I have just about run out of anecdotes about Charles Groves. Yes, an underrated and very human person, not always appreciated by his players for what he did on their behalf, but worthy of the Knighthood which he eventually achieved. So here is my last little story about Sir Charles Groves; his achievements, his disappointments but, above all, his humanity:

Everybody in the orchestra loved Susan, but nobody more so than Charles Groves.

Susan was, of course, my faithful Pyrenean Mountain Dog. Bred in the Pyrenees by the Shepherds they are not sheep dogs, as some people mistakenly call them, but guard dogs – as large as a St Bernard, with the appearance of a big white long-haired retriever. They have fangs like claw hammers and double dew claws on their hind legs which they use when fighting. It is claimed that two male dogs can easily see off a pack of wolves. They are gentle with children and friendly with everybody, but their instincts enable them to spot a miscreant a mile off. The skin above the nose wrinkles and those fearsome fangs appear. However they would never attack except upon command or in defence of their charges.

There was a portrait of Susan, painted by Hornspieler on his Troovi website; but that website is now defunct so you must use your imagination regarding this cuddly canine.

Another trip to Torquay then, for an evening concert with a half hour “seating” rehearsal on arrival. Why leave a dog alone in the house for as much as twelve hours, when we could take her with us and she would only have to wait in the car during the concert?

When we arrived, I took Susan up the stairs behind the stage to the men’s dressing room, where she was greeted by all. As we set off for the rehearsal, a simple “Sit” “Stay” was all that was needed and I closed the door behind us.

Then it happened. As we were about to start, Wally, our second trumpet realised that he’d forgotten to bring down his “A” slides and returned to collect them. Seeing the open door, Susan made for it at once and Wally was certainly not going to stand in her way. She arrived at the back of the stage and picked her way carefully through the trombone section to sit down quietly at my side.

The opening bars of Dvorak’s New World Symphony. Charles Groves looked over to me to give me the the first horn entry and Susan raised her head and looked back at him over the top of the music stand.

“I’m terribly sorry,” I said “I’ll take her back upstairs”

“I don’t mind if she doesn’t mind” said CG “Let her stay there if she’s happy"

So Susan sat alongside me for the rest of that rehearsal, gazing up the bell of my instrument with a worried frown on her canine features. What a critic!


VH

[amateur51]

Everything must come to an end sometime and I think I have just about run out of anecdotes about Charles Groves. Yes, an underrated and very human person, not always appreciated by his players for what he did on their behalf, but worthy of the Knighthood which he eventually achieved. So here is my last little story about Sir Charles Groves; his achievements, his disappointments but, above all, his humanity:

Everybody in the orchestra loved Susan, but nobody more so than Charles Groves.

Susan was, of course, my faithful Pyrenean Mountain Dog. Bred in the Pyrenees by the Shepherds they are not sheep dogs, as some people mistakenly them, but guard dogs – as large as a St Bernard, with the appearance of a big white long-haired retriever, with fangs like claw hammers and double dew claws on their hind legs which they use when fighting. It is claimed that two male dogs can easily see off a pack of wolves. But the are gentle with children and friendly with everybody, but their instincts enable them to spot a miscreant a mile off. The skin above the nose wrinkles and those fearsome fangs appear, but they would never attack except in defence of their charges. There was a portrait of Susan, painted by Hornspieler on his Troovi website; but that website is now defunct so you must use your imagination regarding this cuddly canine.

Another trip to Torquay then, for an evening concert with a half hour “seating” rehearsal on arrival. Why leave a dog alone in the house for as much as twelve hours, when we could take her with us and she would only have to wait in the car during the concert?

When we arrived, I took Susan up the stairs behind the stage to the men’s dressing room, where she was greeted by all. As we set off for the rehearsal, a simple “Sit” “Stay” was all that was needed and I closed the door behind us.

Then it happened. As we were about to start, Wally, our second trumpet realised that he’d forgotten to bring down his “A” slides and returned to collect them. Seeing the open door, Susan made for it at once and Wally was certainly not going to stand in her way. She arrived at the back of the stage and picked her way carefully through the trombone section to sit down quietly at my side.

The opening bars of Dvorak’s New World Symphony. Charles Groves looked over to me to give me the the first horn entry and Susan raised her head and looked back at him over the top of the music stand.

“I’m terribly sorry,” I said “I’ll take her back upstairs”

“I don’t mind if she doesn’t mind” said CG “Let her stay there if she’s happy.”

So Susan sat alongside me for the rest of that rehearsal, gazing up the bell of my instrument with a worried frown on her canine features. What a critic!


VH

Another stonker, VH - very many thanks!

[barber olly]

Scottish National Orchestra - Alexander Gibson
Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra - John Pritchard
Hallé Orchestra - John Barbirolli
CBSO - Hugo Rignold
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra - Charles Groves

These were not "Chief" conductors - they were the conductors of the main provincial symphony orchestras.

They didn't keep disappearing for weeks on end to conduct their "other" orchestras in Sweden or Canada or wherever; they stayed with the one band and imposed their style of interpretation upon the players.

In the mid-sixties the Halle certainly had Barbirolli missing for stretches of the season, George weldon as Ok as his No2, but the Halle sounded a different orchestra when JB was at the helm.

[Richard Tarleton]

I'm sorry I struck such a negative note in #16. It was probably a thankless task stepping in at zero notice for Otto K, and probably an act of kindness in itself.

[BBMmk2]

That's another conductor that we didn't get to know better(well myself) and that was Sir John Pricthard.

[amateur51]

That's another conductor that we didn't get to know better(well myself) and that was Sir John Pricthard.

Agreed BBM!

What say you start another thread for memories and appreciations of Sir John Pritchard