Sir Charles Groves

[Chris Newman]

Sir John Barbirolli was often away because he was also Chief Conductor of the Houston SO and worked a lot as guest conductor with the Berlin PO, Israel PO and Vienna Phil. He was due to add the Bamberg SO to his quiver when he died.

[amateur51]

Sir John Barbirolli was often away because he was also Chief Conductor of the Houston SO and worked a lot as guest conductor with the Berlin PO, Israel PO and Vienna Phil. He was due to add the Bamberg SO to his quiver when he died.

'Glorious John' also worked with Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra and Boston Symphony Orchestra

[Ventilhorn]

'Glorious John' also worked with Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra and Boston Symphony Orchestra

Yes of course. I do accept that JB, John Pritchard and Alexander Gibson certainly did work with other orchestras, but I was writing about the 1950s, when jet travel was unknown, and there is a considerable difference between guesting with another orchestra and holding an official appointment as "Chief Conductor" (which implies also "Musical Director")

VH

[amateur51]

Yes of course. I do accept that JB, John Pritchard and Alexander Gibson certainly did work with other orchestras, but I was writing about the 1950s, when jet travel was unknown, and there is a considerable difference between guesting with another orchestra and holding an official appointment as "Chief Conductor" (which implies also "Musical Director")

VH

Oh indeed VH - I was merely adding to the list that Chris Newman had supplied of orchestras which Sir John Barbirolli had worked with.

Do you have experiences of working with Sir John Pritchard, VH? If so, we'll start another thread & sit ready in anticipation of further delights

[bluestateprommer]

I obviously never had the chance to see Sir Charles Groves live in concert on this side of the pond, but I do have a brief memory of a 1980's radio broadcast of the Los Angeles Philharmonic where Sir Charles was the guest conductor. At the end of the concert, the brass struck up a spontaneous fanfare for him.

From recently reading John Drummond's Tainted By Experience, Drummond told the story of the 1989 Last Night, which Sir John Pritchard conducted, but where as a back-up plan, because Pritchard was in poor shape, Drummond had asked Sir Charles to be on call in case Pritchard couldn't pull off The Last Night. Drummond noted that he was particularly grateful that Sir Charles had agreed to this, as Groves was miffed at not getting a concert in the 1987 Proms (an omission that was corrected in 1988 with Delius' A Mass of Life). Sir Charles also went to the trouble of studying the scores in the Last Night program that he didn't know before. In the end, Pritchard managed to pull off his Last Night appearance. Drummond noted at the end of this story, after Pritchard had given the speech:

"We were all very emotional, and no one noticed Charles Groves sitting at the back of my box and creeping away quietly afterwards so as not to attract attention. His presence was the generous gesture of a very nice man."

[salymap]

Bluestateprommer.

Sir Charles Groves sounds that unusual thing, a really 'nice' modest conductor. Not many of those about.

[amateur51]

Bluestateprommer.

Sir Charles Groves sounds that unusual thing, a really 'nice' modest conductor. Not many of those about.

Yes saly, agreed I'm glad I started this thread.

Many thanks for the story, bsp!

[edjones]

Memories of Charles Groves

I was a violinist for 2 years with the RLPO from 1968-70 and played many concerts with Charlie as he was called. The performance of Turangalila was memorable as we had string sectional rehearsals which was a rarity, and the piece was really awkwardly difficult. The composer attended the final rehearsals and kept calling out "More Blue" "More Yellow" We thought he was a bit crazy, but it was explained that he saw colour in response to sound, and was trying to realise his intentions. Charlie coped well "Trombones Piano"" he would say in a guess for more blue.
One feature about Groves was that he always knew the score and did not waste time learning it during rehearsals which musicians always loathe. His discipline was however poor, and the band would get sloppy, talking during rehearsals and not playing attention, then afer a while Charlie would have a fit like an angry headmaster and tear a strip of us all.
He was a very good accompanist and a memorabl;e concert was the Dvorak Cello Concerto with Rostropovitch at the time of the Prague Spring. He was booed on entry, but gave a staggering performance to an ovation at the end.
Charlie could be a bore to string players as he did not really have a feeling for string sound like Paul Kletski for instance. The worst thing you could do was make a wrong entry or stand out in the section. Some conductors made you sit on the end of your seat and play for your life. Charlie did not.
He was a nice man who wanted to be liked.

[french frank]

That's a lovely vignette, edjones (and welcome, btw). Thank you

[amateur51]

Many thanks for that insider portrait snapshot, edjones

And again, welcome!

[kernelbogey]

Charles Groves conducted the BSO in the first live orchestral concert I attended in, I guess, 1960 - as far west as they ever ventured, the Flamingo Ballroom in Pool near Redruth. As I recall the programme was Der Freischuetz overture, Prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune, Dumbarton Oaks Concerto and Tchaikowsky Symphony No 4.

[Ventilhorn]

Charles Groves conducted the BSO in the first live orchestral concert I attended in, I guess, 1960 - as far west as they ever ventured, the Flamingo Ballroom in Pool near Redruth. As I recall the programme was Der Freischuetz overture, Prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune, Dumbarton Oaks Concerto and Tchaikowsky Symphony No 4.

I remember it well Actually we did do Truro a few times and also Falmouth and Penzance. But Pool was special, because it was a Motel, so accomodation was right there on site and we were made very welcome.

VH

[kernelbogey]

I remember it well Actually we did do Truro a few times and also Falmouth and Penzance. But Pool was special, because it was a Motel, so accomodation was right there on site and we were made very welcome. VH

VH, I believe we exchanged messages about this before - did you have another name on these boards, or possibly the BBC one? I seem to remember a confession about a cellist that all the brass were besotted with.... And you couldn't remember having played Dumbarton Oaks.

To a fifteen-year old just getting interested in music mostly via the Third Programme/Network Three, the sound of a symphony orchestra live was an astonishing moment. I already knew the Tchaikowsky, which admirably fed my existential teenage angst, but the rest of that evening's programme was new to me.

I've recently heard the band in Poole (with an e) under Kiril Karabits and think they're excellent. Sadly I never heard them live under Alsopp, though I heard them play several times under her on the radio.

[Ventilhorn]

VH, I believe we exchanged messages about this before - did you have another name on these boards, or possibly the BBC one? I seem to remember a confession about a cellist that all the brass were besotted with.... And you couldn't remember having played Dumbarton Oaks.

.

On the BBC message boards, I was hornspieler, but on this forum, when the elusive genialhorn changed his name to waldhorn*, I decided to change mine to ventilhorn**. Where is the dear chap, by the way?

I don't remember anything about the brass section lusting after a cellist. There were actually no less than 9 married couples in the orchestra (including myself), when I joined the BSO in 1958. Many years have passed and many concerts played since that time and I cannot remember all of them, but certainly there was very little Stravinsky that I did not encounter during my time with the BSO.

* Waldhorn means in German "Hunting horn" (an instrument without valves or pistons, but where the notes can be varied by use of the hand inside the bell of the instrument) which we would call a "hand horn"

** Ventils are valves or pistons, so the modern orchestral instrument is a Ventil Horn

Clear as mud? Well never mind. Playing tunes on a hand horn is a skill not achieved by many - and certainly not by me, but some bands which play on instruments of the time (like The Academy of Ancient Music or The Hanover Band) would use the instruments of that period.
(Viols, Shaums, Rebecks, Sackbutts and Cornettes , Rackets and Hand Horns - to name but a few) Check with next Friday's (21st October at 7 pm) "Live in Concert" to hear some but not all of these period instruments. Trevor Pinnock conducting the OAE and he's good!

Best wishes

Ventilhorn

[Lord Mersey]

I recall waiting to get in at the 150th anniversary concert of the RLPO at the Phil. Because of the security arrangements there was a slight delay in getting in. Behind me I heard a very gentle 'excuse me'. Looking back it was Sir Charles.

How many if todays 'Maestro's' would be so polite and considerate?