Afternoon Concert - general thread

[french frank]

The reason Afternoon Concert is the way it is - it’s MONEY .

That was the point I made, though I'm not sure that it needs to be so. (Then, perhaps it does).

I suspect that the reason we don't get full length works, still less complete programmes of full-length works, is because the record industry fears people will record off-air rather than buy a CD/download. But we ought to get back to concerts by the BBC orchestras and recordings of those. I can't see that the industry could legitimately complain even if they didn't much like the idea (as per the row over The Beethoven Experience).

But daily 3-hour ragbags of snippets is just about as awful as it can get. And yet, and yet, some people are satisfied with that. Part of the problem is that the BBC says that 'audiences are at the heart of everything we do" = populist broadcasting. If "people" switch off when entire works are played, don't play entire works. That wasn't how the network used to work.

[french frank]

As this is sort of related to criticisms of AC, I'll ask the question(s) here. How long/often has the evening concert been - last Wednesday, for example - up to nine separate pieces, a mix of orchestral, chamber, piano music wrapped around the advertised symphony? Were the Bartók concerto and the symphony even performed at the same concert? Has the "interval" talk now been ditched completely?

[Pulcinella]

As this is sort of related to criticisms of AC, I'll ask the question(s) here. How long/often has the evening concert been - last Wednesday, for example - up to nine separate pieces, a mix of orchestral, chamber, piano music wrapped around the advertised symphony? Were the Bartók concerto and the symphony even performed at the same concert? Has the "interval" talk now been ditched completely?

These are the concert items:

Dohnányi- Symphonic Minutes, op. 36
Bartok- Piano Concerto No. 3 in E major
Schumann- Symphony No. 3 in E-flat major, Op. 97, "Rhenish"

The remainder must be interval fillers and after-concert fillers.
I think that any interval 'feature' is pretty much dead these days.

[french frank]

These are the concert items:

Dohnányi- Symphonic Minutes, op. 36
Bartok- Piano Concerto No. 3 in E major
Schumann- Symphony No. 3 in E-flat major, Op. 97, "Rhenish"

The remainder must be interval fillers and after-concert fillers.
I think that any interval 'feature' is pretty much dead these days.

Does that mean the shorter pieces weren't played in the order given? I'd have thought it would make more sense to group the concert items together and then play the shorter items after? They could bill it as a concert and then follow it with a separate mixed programme but still join them all together for the Sounds technology. But perhaps this is - again - only me If I've been to a concert I wouldn't immediately be putting on my headphones again for the journey home.

[smittims]

Nor I; nor in the interval either (or is it neither? ). I prefer a little talk in the interval of concert. As to 'Afternoon Concert' I think it's time to change its name to 'Afternoon Jumble' or just 'Afternoon on3'. There seems no point in pretending it's a concert if R3 is catering for the peripatetic listener.

[Pulcinella]

Does that mean the shorter pieces weren't played in the order given? I'd have thought it would make more sense to group the concert items together and then play the shorter items after? They could bill it as a concert and then follow it with a separate mixed programme but still join them all together for the Sounds technology. But perhaps this is - again - only me If I've been to a concert I wouldn't immediately be putting on my headphones again for the journey home.

I take it to mean that
Dohnányi- Symphonic Minutes, op. 36
Bartok- Piano Concerto No. 3 in E major
constituted the first part of the 'concert' and
Schumann- Symphony No. 3 in E-flat major, Op. 97, "Rhenish"
the second part, and that the overall listing that you've probably spotted includes the interval pieces and the after-concert pieces in the order in which they were put out on the night and listenable to on Sounds.

[oddoneout]

I take it to mean that
Dohnányi- Symphonic Minutes, op. 36
Bartok- Piano Concerto No. 3 in E major
constituted the first part of the 'concert' and
Schumann- Symphony No. 3 in E-flat major, Op. 97, "Rhenish"
the second part, and that the overall listing that you've probably spotted includes the interval pieces and the after-concert pieces in the order in which they were put out on the night and listenable to on Sounds.

That's how I would interpret it as well. But how is that kind of undifferentiated list of any use to even someone with a bit of knowledge of the subject matter - trying to find the actual concert contents shouldn't be a needle in a haystack exercise. The bitty interval trend makes it worse, as previously the bits and pieces were fillers at the end of the concert "to take us up to"[next programme] and it was clear where and what the interval content was.
The items played need to be shown but why can it not be made clear what is concert(which folk are likely to want to get at for listen again purposes without too much fuss) and what is "other". Their are rarely encores broadcast so 'unexpected items in packing bay' aren't very likely to be those.

[french frank]

I take it to mean that <snip>

Correct. False alarm. It was the first half of a concert, followed by an encore. The 10-min interval was an interview with the soloist punctuated by three piano recordings by the soloist. The second half was presumably the symphony, followed by two unrelated recordings as fillers to make up 2h 28mins. That all makes sense and few people would complain that there was 'too much music'

[smittims]

Holst fans, if they haven't already bought the CD , may like to look up yesterday's programme when at about 3.38 pm (1538 GMT) we had what was claimed to be the 'complete' version of Holst's Indra. I can't make up my mind about it. I can certainly see why a shorter version was recorded (on Chandos) by Sir Andrew Davis; unlike some of Holst's other early works it is little long for its material.

I was amused when it was played at the Proms about ten years ago and the 'presenter' , searching for something to say, asked his 'guest' who was either Indian or from partly Indian ancestry, 'well, did that sound like Indian music to you?' , which I thought ranked as one of the most crass remarks I've heard on radio.

[Andrew Slater]

Holst fans, if they haven't already bought the CD , may like to look up yesterday's programme when at about 3.38 pm (1538 GMT) we had what was claimed to be the 'complete' version of Holst's Indra. I can't make up my mind about it. I can certainly see why a shorter version was recorded (on Chandos) by Sir Andrew Davis; unlike some of Holst's other early works it is little long for its material.

I was amused when it was played at the Proms about ten years ago and the 'presenter' , searching for something to say, asked his 'guest' who was either Indian or from partly Indian ancestry, 'well, did that sound like Indian music to you?' , which I thought ranked as one of the most crass remarks I've heard on radio.

I'm slightly confused.

The opening announcement claimed that the recording was recent, then the back announcement claimed that it was a new recording. If it was the one claimed, with the Ulster Orchestra, conducted by JoAnn Falletta, on Naxos, it was issued in 2012, having been recorded in 2011, so hardly new or recent. The length, according to the schedule, was 15'46", which matches the length on Sounds and the length according to the Presto website. The Chandos version, with the BBC Philharmonic, conducted by Sir Andrew Davis, is of length 15'30", which admittedly is shorter than the Naxos version, but only by 16 seconds, which could easily be accounted for by differences in performance, rather than being the result of cuts. (I'll have to listen to them both.) A much earlier version on Lyrita, with the LSO, conducted by David Atherton, (1993?) is of length 12'40", and noted as being edited by Colin Matthews, so this shorter length is probably accounted for by cuts. (Again, I'll have to listen.) It was claimed in the programme that the recording played was the first full recording, which is probably correct: the Chandos version was issued later than the Naxos version, in 2018., and I haven't (yet) found any other recordings.

[smittims]

It's a while since I heard the Chandos version, but I felt the Falletta pefromance began with a longer quiet introduction where Davis plunges into a loud tutti straight away. I agree, it's a bit of a mystery. Maybe Fiona hadn't been fully informed! Can any Holst experts out there help?

[Andrew Slater]

It's a while since I heard the Chandos version, but I felt the Falletta pefromance began with a longer quiet introduction where Davis plunges into a loud tutti straight away. I agree, it's a bit of a mystery. Maybe Fiona hadn't been fully informed! Can any Holst experts out there help?

I've just listened to all three recordings, and they all begin with the same introduction. Perhaps the Davis performance is slightly louder, or your radio signal wasn't very good yesterday afternoon?

[smittims]

I think it's my memory that's at fault. Thanks for clarifying.

[smittims]

This programme has been criticised so much recently that it was a pleasure to hear two works by Schein, and Victoria Poleva's third symphony yesterday afternoon.

Schein was one of the 'three S's' (Schutz, Schein and Scheidt) we were taught at school were the predecessors of JS Bach, but I thinkScheinis the least performed. I had not heard of Victoria Poleva, but I was impressed by her symphony. Not a note too long.

[oddoneout]

This programme has been criticised so much recently that it was a pleasure to hear two works by Schein, and Victoria Poleva's third symphony yesterday afternoon.

Schein was one of the 'three S's' (Schutz, Schein and Scheidt) we were taught at school were the predecessors of JS Bach, but I thinkScheinis the least performed. I had not heard of Victoria Poleva, but I was impressed by her symphony. Not a note too long.

I too enjoyed the Schein pieces - both the music itself and the performance. What a shame they came from a concert of pieces by unfamiliar (not just to me I think?)composers that was given the deconstruction and stripping treatment across the week, so it was a case of trying to catch them, awkwardly placed amongst the rest of the bits and pieces. What a wonderful "Afternoon Concert" it would have made in its intended and performed form...

As an aside I am a little puzzled by this in the online listing

Ach, Herr, lehre doch mich SEGUE Ach wie gar nichts sind alle Menschen

[my bold], which also appears in the listing for a piece by Selle on Thursday. It looks like a warning/reminder to the presenter not to jump in, but I can't see its relevance to the listener?