Afternoon Concert - general thread

[smittims]

Yes , I caught that 'afternoon show' remark and wondered if it was a Freudian slip. But I did enjoy the Schulhoff arrangement of Beethoven's 'Rage over a lost penny'. A good companion piece to Schedrin's 'Concerto for Orchestra : Merry Ditties' which had a vogue in the 1960s..

[oddoneout]

Another wonderful(not) tweak to the programme - a teaser snippet of the 3pm work. So at 2-15, following a movement from a Haydn mass (what happened to the rest - your guess is as good as mine) straight into a few bars from Schumann No1, with Penny Gore valiantly trying to make something of it before introducing the next item. How many people listening to the programme(or afternoon show as Ian Skelly referred to it last week - another sign of the times?) will have thought "oh that sounds good I must listen" - sufficient to justify the gimmick? I would suggest that generally those who wanted to hear the Schumann would have known about it and quite possibly (probably?) have chosen to avoid the preliminaries of 2-3pm.
My initial reaction was confusion - had I missed the beginning (despite not having left the room) followed by, was the schedule timing wrong. Penny Gore burbling reassured on both fronts but I could cheerfully have done something physical, preferably painful, to whoever was responsible... I have quite enough problems and worries at the moment without R3 frazzling my brain this way. Afternoon Concert is becoming more and more a no-go area for me; splitting works up not just over the afternoon's programme but over different days, playing movements instead of whole works, insertion of adverts(used to be a blessedly advert-free zone), and now teasers for the 3pm "main work"...

[smittims]

Indeed, cloughie, though it may be hair-splitting, but last time I heard Barenboim's first recording of the second symphony I preferred it to his Berlin version. At any rate it's good to have so many fine performances today, when the deaths of Hickox and Handley threatened to make a gap in Elgar interpretation.

[cloughie]

Ha, Ha! I had a sneaking feeling I'd misremembered which Elgar Symphony Simon did; thanks for putting the record straight . I felt the Manze 1 was as good as the Rattle 2, or as President Nixon said, 'I think that is what I thought I meant'.

I rather think Manze has some way to go as an Elgarian cf his RVW which is excellent. Then we all take in differences with our ears, hearts and minds.

Adding what MJ says about German orchestras and Elgar, Barenboim’s recordings of the symphonies came off pretty well and certainly 40+ Years of maturity showed more measured approach than his youthful 1970s recordings with the LPO.

[Master Jacques]

The rest of the week the 3 pm big slot is another serialisation, this time of Handel's Israel in Egypt.

These serialisations are a very bad habit for Radio 3 to be getting into. They do no service to composers, performers - or especially listeners, if the implication is that we can only take our oratorio in half-pint measures. Handel did not write Israel in Egypt to be thrice rendered, and offered up piecemeal as mini-bite burnt offerings. It's difficult enough to build momentum in this particular work, even hearing it in one fell swoop. What on earth is the point of such airheaded programming by the self-styled "curators"?

[Master Jacques]

I was satisfied with the Elgar, a well-paced perfromance. I liked the way he managed the tempi overall, so that the motto theme emerged steadily at the end of the first and last movements as if it had been there in the background all the time. Overall quite as good, in my view ,as the Rattle/LSO performace earlier this year..

And I liked the orchestra, especially the brass, sonorous and well-tuned. It's good to hear a German orchestra play Elgar as he was first acclaimed there as a European comoser before he was praised as an English composer in England.

I'm sorry to see others weren't so pleased. Do try to listen again, if you can.

I agree with you about the benefits of hearing German orchestras in British symphonies. One of my personal CD choices in Elgar's 1st has Colin Davis conducting the Dresden Orchestra (on Profil, as mentioned I think somewhere above). This is so impressive, especially for that brass and a still sense of calm control, where every gesture is made to count. The Dresden players build and layer the work's climaxes as well as anybody. Yesterday's effort had more the sense of stumbling across them, to my mind.

Two of my current favourite RVW 5ths also feature German orchestras. I love the Brucknerian ambience of the opening, in Walter Hilgers's reading with the Brandenburg Orch. [Genuin]; the whole performance has a sense of rediscovery. And there's an understated yet radiant reading from a so-called "minor" orchestra which I treasure - Douglas Bostock with the Argovia Phil. on Coviello:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8193193--british-orchestral-works-by-elgar-vaughan-williams-holst

This is a real keeper for me, especially as the Holst coupling has the same exquisite, fresh qualities. The Elgar Froissart is a little underpowered. But spirit counts for so much more than orchestral virtuosity in RVW5, as in so many others.

[smittims]

Ha, Ha! I had a sneaking feeling I'd misremembered which Elgar Symphony Simon did; thanks for putting the record straight . I felt the Manze 1 was as good as the Rattle 2, or as President Nixon said, 'I think that is what I thought I meant'.

[cloughie]

I was satisfied with the Elgar, a well-paced perfromance. I liked the way he managed the tempi overall, so that the motto theme emerged steadily at the end of the first and last movements as if it had been there in the background all the time. Overall quite as good, in my view ,as the Rattle/LSO performace earlier this year..

And I liked the orchestra, especially the brass, sonorous and well-tuned. It's good to hear a German orchestra play Elgar as he was first acclaimed there as a European comoser before he was praised as an English composer in England.

I'm sorry to see others weren't so pleased. Do try to listen again, if you can.

I’m only aware of a Rattle No2 - did he do No1?

[smittims]

I was satisfied with the Elgar, a well-paced perfromance. I liked the way he managed the tempi overall, so that the motto theme emerged steadily at the end of the first and last movements as if it had been there in the background all the time. Overall quite as good, in my view ,as the Rattle/LSO performace earlier this year..

And I liked the orchestra, especially the brass, sonorous and well-tuned. It's good to hear a German orchestra play Elgar as he was first acclaimed there as a European comoser before he was praised as an English composer in England.

I'm sorry to see others weren't so pleased. Do try to listen again, if you can.

[oddoneout]

Agree with Master Jacques about the Sibelius VC. The Elgar I found somewhat less unsatisfactory; there were parts where the glory of the music shone through - possibly despite the performers or is that being too catty?
This afternoon's programme did illustrate what I have mentioned before - a complete concert chopped up and spread over the allotted time, in this case with the opening item appearing at 2pm (I didn't hear it as I was late tuning in), then lots of bits and pieces, then the two major works. There would have been an interval in the original concert but did there need to be the Schubert piano arrangement this afternoon between the two works?
The rest of the week the 3 pm big slot is another serialisation, this time of Handel's Israel in Egypt.

[Master Jacques]

I didn't hear it all, only the end of the slow movt and finale both of which reminded me how wonderful it is. The music worked its magic on me and the closing pages were so stirringly played, what a piece!

You joined as I left, finding it loveless as cloughie did. As the slow movement started at one speed and appeared to my jaded ears to be finishing at quite another, I turned it off and got back to work! I'm glad you were properly receptive, though; for of course it is a wonderful and magical work.

[gradus]

I didn't hear it all, only the end of the slow movt and finale both of which reminded me how wonderful it is. The music worked its magic on me and the closing pages were so stirringly played, what a piece!

[cloughie]

Alas, "interesting" is not the first word that comes to mind for me, thus far, with this Elgar 1. "Efficient", at best; "pedestrian", in places; "scrappy", at times. Mind you, it's much better than the Sibelius VC which preceded it: tuning in just after that started, so without knowing anything about the personnel, I thought this the worst performance I'd heard of the piece - so floppy as to make it sound like a bad work. Which it isn't, though it evidently doesn't play itself. Conductor was giving way far too much to the soloist, I thought, producing a stop-go effect without momentum. Perhaps you had to be there.

I found the Elgar 1 lacked the love it really needs! I agree with the patchwork of descriptions you applied MJ.

[Master Jacques]

Should be interesting - is the money on a sub 50’ performance? Interesting comment about availability of recordings in 1966 - Elgar’s own recording was not on LP, nor maybe Boult’s 1949. His Lyrita and EMI recordings were later. But JB’s two recordings are excellent - even now topping my list alongside Bryden Thomson’s! (Other very good ones are available).

Alas, "interesting" is not the first word that comes to mind for me, thus far, with this Elgar 1. "Efficient", at best; "pedestrian", in places; "scrappy", at times. Mind you, it's much better than the Sibelius VC which preceded it: tuning in just after that started, so without knowing anything about the personnel, I thought this the worst performance I'd heard of the piece - so floppy as to make it sound like a bad work. Which it isn't, though it evidently doesn't play itself. Conductor was giving way far too much to the soloist, I thought, producing a stop-go effect without momentum. Perhaps you had to be there.

[cloughie]

This may be the place to mention that Andrew Manze conducts Elgar's First Symphony in this afternoon's programme at about 1540 GMT I guess.

His performances and recordings of Vaughan Williams' symphonies have been widely praised and I heard him do Elgar's Introduction and Allegro at the Festival Hall in 2015 , but I can't recall him conducting an Elgar symphony. I first heard this symphony around 1966 played by the Radio Frankfurt S.O. , unusually, conducted by Colin Davis, a very good performance.

There weren't many available recordings then; it was mostly a choice of Barbirolli or Barbirolli! How times change. Andrew Manze will find himself compared with many interpreters , from the composer himself to Tony Pappano and Vasily Petrenko, to name only two fine recent performances I've heard.

Should be interesting - is the money on a sub 50’ performance? Interesting comment about availability of recordings in 1966 - Elgar’s own recording was not on LP, nor maybe Boult’s 1949. His Lyrita and EMI recordings were later. But JB’s two recordings are excellent - even now topping my list alongside Bryden Thomson’s! (Other very good ones are available).