Afternoon Concert - general thread

[cloughie]

Another random selection of items, not chosen to make a good whole. On the basis of the pattern that seems to have emerged for disassembling "bought-in concerts" do you think the original AAM Berlin offer was Bach x 2 and LvB 1?
And despite the blurb saying "symphonies by Beethoven" I think we'll get just the one/1.

Maybe today but the week may bring others!

[AuntDaisy]

Another random selection of items, not chosen to make a good whole. On the basis of the pattern that seems to have emerged for disassembling "bought-in concerts" do you think the original AAM Berlin offer was Bach x 2 and LvB 1?
And despite the blurb saying "symphonies by Beethoven" I think we'll get just the one/1.

I'm probably wrong, but are the CPE Bach & Beethoven 1 from this concert, which did have two Beethoven symphones?

Zwei Feuerköpfe
Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach; Sinfonie F-Dur Wq 175 (1755)
Ludwig van Beethoven; Symphonie Nr. 2 D-Dur op. 36 (1800–02)
Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach; Sinfonie G-Dur Wq 183/4 (1775/76)
Ludwig van Beethoven; Symphonie Nr. 1 C-Dur op. 21 (1799/1800)

[oddoneout]

Maybe today but the week may bring others!

Oops! I read too quickly and missed that because it was Monday the blurb included an overview of the week not just today's offering.

[oddoneout]

I'm probably wrong, but are the CPE Bach & Beethoven 1 from this concert, which did have two Beethoven symphones?

I don't know as I heard mention of Schwetzingen in relation to one of the pieces, and one of the Bach items was JS. Having said that, given what they get up to now with AC who knows?

[AuntDaisy]

I don't know as I heard mention of Schwetzingen in relation to one of the pieces, and one of the Bach items was JS. Having said that, given what they get up to now with AC who knows?

Here's another wild stab in the dark... Could the Beethoven be from these Schwetzinger concerts? The enboldened ones are in this week's AC, which also skips Beethoven 4.
They look to be available to listen to, so I might try comparing them.

https://www.swr.de/swr2/musik-klassik/beethovens-sinfonien-und-ihre-vorbilder-i-akademie-fuer-alte-musik-berlin-100.html

Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach: Sinfonie F-Dur Wq 175
Ludwig van Beethoven: Sinfonie Nr. 2 D-Dur op. 36
Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach: Sinfonie G-Dur Wq 183 Nr. 4
Ludwig van Beethoven: Sinfonie Nr. 1 C-Dur op. 21

https://www.swr.de/swr2/musik-klassik/beethovens-sinfonien-und-ihre-vorbilder-ii-akademie-fuer-alte-musik-berlin-100.html

Paul Wranitzky: Grande Symphonie caractéristique pour la Paix avec la République française c-Moll op. 31
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart: Intrada zum Singspiel "Bastien und Bastienne" KV 50 (46b)
Ludwig van Beethoven: Sinfonie Nr. 3 Es-Dur op. 55 "Eroica"

https://www.swr.de/swr2/musik-klassik/beethovens-sinfonien-und-ihre-vorbilder-iii-akademie-fuer-alte-musik-berlin-104.html

Luigi Cherubini: Ouvertüre zur comédie-héroïque "Lodoïska"
Étienne-Nicolas Méhul: Sinfonie Nr. 1 g-Moll
Ludwig van Beethoven : Sinfonie Nr. 5 c-Moll op. 67 "Schicksalssinfonie"

https://www.swr.de/swr2/musik-klassik/beethovens-sinfonien-und-ihre-vorbilder-iv-akademie-fuer-alte-musik-berlin-100.html

Ignaz Jacob Holzbauer : Sinfonie Es-Dur op. 4 Nr. 3 „La tempesta del mare“
Justin Heinrich Knecht: Sinfonie „Le portrait musical de la nature, ou Grande simphonie“
Ludwig van Beethoven : Sinfonie Nr. 6 F-Dur op. 68 „Pastorale“

[jayne lee wilson]

Perhaps worth the reminder that the Beethoven 1,2 and 6, plus the CPE Bach Wq175, with the AAMB and Forck, all feature in recent HM 20/27 Beethoven Series releases...

Wonderful performances in whichever guise you encounter....

[antongould]

Why?

Well as an example Hartlepool has a number of monkeys …… but one less than they used to have ……..

[oddoneout]

From today's schedule:

focusing on symphonies performed in The Netherlands at 3pm each day

Well I suppose it's one way of producing a shortlist... Seriously though (and not for the first time I wonder this) who cleared it to appear in public.

[cloughie]

I’m obviously very non hipp - hearing the arrangement of Bach’s BWV582 played this afternoon by Holland Baroque - just plain dreary - not only was it a disappointing contrast to the Organ original played by Christopher Herrick on CoTW earlier this week I really think the Elgar arrangement has much more life in it! Somehow today’s arrangement sounded much older than Bach - or is that how it would have sounded to Bach - well probably not because it was probably played only on organ then - and maybe a smaller one than most modern recordings - even than the Herrick!

[edashtav]

I’m obviously very non hipp - hearing the arrangement of Bach’s BWV582 played this afternoon by Holland Baroque - just plain dreary - not only was it a disappointing contrast to the Organ original played by Christopher Herrick on CoTW earlier this week I really think the Elgar arrangement has much more life in it! Somehow today’s arrangement sounded much older than Bach - or is that how it would have sounded to Bach - well probably not because it was probably played only on organ then - and maybe a smaller one than most modern recordings - even than the Herrick!

I agree. It lasted 10’ 06” but those ten minutes sounded like eternity in the doldrums. The performance lacked forward momentum, the violins played ultra romantically with a swell and diminuendo on every long note, so un-organlike. More a lumbering hippopotamus than the spirit of HIPP. Absolutely ghastly!

[Serial_Apologist]

I agree. It lasted 10’ 06” but those ten minutes sounded like eternity in the doldrums. The performance lack forward momentum, the violins played ultra romantically with a swell and diminuendo on every long note, so un-organlike. More a lumbering hippopotamus than the spirit of HIPP. Absolutely ghastly!

When precisely did this personnerism enter performances of Baroque music? It actually makes me feel bilious and need to turn off music I might otherwise enjoy.

[jayne lee wilson]

I agree. It lasted 10’ 06” but those ten minutes sounded like eternity in the doldrums. The performance lacked forward momentum, the violins played ultra romantically with a swell and diminuendo on every long note, so un-organlike. More a lumbering hippopotamus than the spirit of HIPP. Absolutely ghastly!

Romantic?

Surely this is simply the swell or messa di voce, one of the most ubiquitous of all baroque playing techniques, whether in vocals or strings. Tartini, Geminiani and many others wrote about it in their treatises; they would have considered it essential to playing of good taste and expressive presentation. Like any other technique in any other time it can be done well or badly. You can watch tutorials in it on youtube.
But I think those Old Masters would enjoy Holland Baroque’s arrangement of BWV532, which they played as a gracious dance, rather in the manner of a Sarabande.
Heard via the AAC stream, It had a serene flow, and lovely luminous textures, the main cantus brought out beautifully as it rose and fell, in the winds especially, which had a vocally cantabile character.
( I listen often to Baroque/Early Music specialists from the 21st Century. One of my musical homelands.)

Holland Baroque are a very innovative young group, who have collaborated with the sheng player Wu Wei on an album of cross-cultural Baroque/Chinese trad. works “Silk Baroque”.
Utterly lovely creation.
Their Telemann Album “Polonoise” is a great favourite of mine, a very freely performed sequence of his Polish-inspired dances. I often have this on as my aubade…a little bit of inner sunshine under the greyest of skies ......

[cloughie]

Romantic?

Surely this is simply the swell or messa di voce, one of the most ubiquitous of all baroque playing techniques, whether in vocals or strings. Tartini, Geminiani and many others wrote about it in their treatises; they would have considered it essential to playing of good taste and expressive presentation. Like any other technique in any other time it can be done well or badly. You can watch tutorials in it on youtube.
But I think those Old Masters would enjoy Holland Baroque’s arrangement of BWV532, which they played as a gracious dance, rather in the manner of a Sarabande.
Heard via the AAC stream, It had a serene flow, and lovely luminous textures, the main cantus brought out beautifully as it rose and fell, in the winds especially, which had a vocally cantabile character.
( I listen often to Baroque/Early Music specialists from the 21st Century. One of my musical homelands.)

Holland Baroque are a very innovative young group, who have collaborated with the sheng player Wu Wei on an album of cross-cultural Baroque/Chinese trad. works “Silk Baroque”.
Utterly lovely creation.
Their Telemann Album “Polonoise” is a great favourite of mine, a very freely performed sequence of his Polish-inspired dances. I often have this on as my aubade…a little bit of inner sunshine under the greyest of skies....

Jayne, I heard it on the wireless - as I say it just sounded dreary - if I listened to it on the best sound equipment in the world it would still sound dreary because to my ears it was a hfreary performance - we’ll agree to differ on this!

[gradus]

I enjoyed the first minute or two but it became increasingly dull and to my ears at odds with the organ original. Try Lionel Rogg or Christopher Herrick both on superb Metzler organs which bring this piece to full vibrant life.

[edashtav]

I enjoyed the first minute or two but it became increasingly dull and to my ears at odds with the organ original. Try Lionel Rogg or Christopher Herrick both on superb Metzler organs which bring this piece to full vibrant life.

I concur.
The term ‘mannered’ comes to my mind.