Afternoon Concert - general thread

[oddoneout]

Yes, that was when I switched off. I might have enjoyed the Gershwin another time , but after a 'bleeding chunk' of Bach it was too much . I suppose the argument is that Bach didn't intend the Mass to be played all at once , but it does suggest the old BBC assumption that we have a short attention-span unless it's sugared with a dose of Gershwin.

The argument that the B minor mass wasn't intended/never was used liturgically in one go doesn't deal with the process(I'm reluctant to call it thinking...) that arrives at the Gershwin piece as a suitable one to immediately follow the ending of the mass. I'm not overly concerned about keeping to a sacred theme, just find something that doesn't throw a mortar under the mood left by the preceding piece. Change of mood or pace is one thing, destroying it is quite another.
Yet another example of the need to rename the programme, as 'concert' it ain't.

[smittims]

quite so.

[gurnemanz]

Yet another example of the need to rename the programme, as 'concert' it ain't.

No. It is not meant to be a concert. No concert lasts three hours. It is a relatively random assemblage of concert performances, like Through the Night. I didn't listen but wouldn't regard Gershwin after Bach as more offensive than any other juxtaposition which the programme presents. We do have an actual concert in the evening.

[french frank]

No. It is not meant to be a concert ... It is a relatively random assemblage of concert performances, like Through the Night.

A matter for Trading Standards then? When it started it was supposed to replicate a concert in having a single orchestra and full length works.

We do have an actual concert in the evening.

I'm not sure that that prevents there being one in the afternoon as well, rather than yet another 'random assemblage' of pieces.

[oddoneout]

No. It is not meant to be a concert. No concert lasts three hours. It is a relatively random assemblage of concert performances, like Through the Night. I didn't listen but wouldn't regard Gershwin after Bach as more offensive than any other juxtaposition which the programme presents. We do have an actual concert in the evening.

The common format used to be a concert plus other full length works. The concert element could be a recording or one put on specifically for AC using the BBC orchestras. There were also themed episodes.
That has been gradually dismantled, initially with concert recordings being dissected and spaced through the programme, separated by other pieces mostly unconnected in any way. That has been reduced now to a "3pm" slot for a major work, such that any other items in the concert programme(if it formed part of such) don't appear. Other items in the AC output now are short pieces, or bits from longer works(either stand alone, eg single movements, or as the result of being serialised across several days) These changes have been accompanied by the now ubiquitous drive to include quantities of "chat 'n' ads".
As such there is insufficient difference between the hours of the morning schedule - which doesn't pretend to be anything other than bits and pieces, chat'n'ads.
Yes there is an evening concert - but that's not an argument for removing the AC one. I used to listen to AC as I found the concerts interesting, especially where they formed part of a themed broadcast and, together with the rest of the programme output, were more likely to feature less familiar music.Now that the evening concerts seem to have become so very limited in terms of repertoire I notice the loss of the afternoon ones even more.
As an aside I notice the online "information" has gone back to the unhelpful format of putting the major 3pm slot item at the beginning of the 'Music Played' list. It was suggested that this is the result of playing a snippet at the beginning of the programme - in itself a tiresome gimmick - which isn't differentiated(by the software?) from the actual work, played in full later on.
I have long accepted(although not necessarily with good grace) what has happened to the morning schedules, but to find that the afternoon slot has now been taken over by what is in essence the same approach is just too much not least as it now draws on the same, limited, small pool of music. There is so much more out there as the EBU Christmas special always demonstrates - shouldn't R3 be giving it airtime - isn't it supposed to be widening our horizons, not narrowing them? Which links to the latest ad - Petroc exhorting us to make a resolution to "listen to more classical [sic] music" - a worthy aim, but not one that will be fulfilled by R3 as far as I'm concerned, given the way it continues to go.

[smittims]

One wonders why they continue to include the word concert in the title. Is there perhaps some vestigial Reithian belief that families will gather round their set and listen to the whole programme as if they were there? I remember when the Lunchtime Concert was often an orchestral concert, though rarely live. It was usually recorded in the evening at a provincial hall with tickets given away free to applicants. I remember going to Stockport Town Hall to hear George Hurst or Bryden Thomson conduct the BBC Northern S.O. , and once, memorably, Sir Adrian Boult conduct Haydn , and these turned up in coming months as lunchtime broadcasts. I beleive they were at one time called 'Lunchtime Proms' , though there was no promenading.

[oddoneout]

One wonders why they continue to include the word concert in the title. Is there perhaps some vestigial Reithian belief that families will gather round their set and listen to the whole programme as if they were there? I remember when the Lunchtime Concert was often an orchestral concert, though rarely live. It was usually recorded in the evening at a provincial hall with tickets given away free to applicants. I remember going to Stockport Town Hall to hear George Hurst or Bryden Thomson conduct the BBC Northern S.O. , and once, memorably, Sir Adrian Boult conduct Haydn , and these turned up in coming months as lunchtime broadcasts. I beleive they were at one time called 'Lunchtime Proms' , though there was no promenading.

This is my grumble about what is now broadcast in that slot.
The Lunchtime Concert seems to be more recital/chamber music than orchestral nowadays, but at least it is a proper - complete - offering, with recordings and live broadcasts from festivals and other public concerts relayed as intended.
How long before it too is got at and ruined I wonder?

[french frank]

If one argues that a 3-hour programme can't be 'a concert', the sensible reply is: So why is it now a 3-hour programme? Why is the late morning programme (EC) a 3-hour programme? If I had to guess, I'd say: money. This is cheapo scheduling that gives us cheapo programmes. At least when the Third Programme gave music 'on gramophone records' they didn't shy away from playing full-length works.

In 2000 the programme was just called The BBC Orchestras and this was an example of what was broadcast (it lasted 2 hours):

This week featuring Vaughan Williams's symphonies.
Bridge Suite: The Sea - Conductor Yan Pascal Tortelier
Ravel Piano Concerto for the left hand - Peter Donohoe, conductor Peter Maxwell Davies
Vaughan Williams A Sea Symphony (Symphony No 1) - Sarah Leonard (soprano), Paul Whelan (bass), Huddersfield Choral Society, conductor Martyn Brabbins

[mopsus]

Yes, I used to enjoy the sequences of works by the same composer on successive days. I recall all 15 of Shostakovich's symphonies broadcast, in order, over the afternoons of 3 weeks, though that might have been a bit hard if you were a regular listener who didn't like Shostakovich.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The reason Afternoon Concert is the way it is - it’s MONEY . Prelockdown entire special concerts done by BBC orchestras were either broadcast live or prerecorded often with an audience. The BBC concert orchestra filled many of the slots .Just flicked through genome and found dozens of examples from 2018 and 2019. Come lockdown - no live concerts and initially very few recordings. Also during lockdown the Beeb had more or less a total funding freeze. So what better than to continue the lockdown practice of a cobble together.I bet the audience figures went up as well.
Most Beeb departments have had in effect a 30 per cent cut - arguably more because broadcasting costs have gone up over and above inflation . My previous department in TV was entirely closed and 100 plus people thrown out of work. Since then Local radio has been completely laid waste. You might not believe this but Radio 3 has got off relatively lightly. There are dozens of senior managers in the BBC aching to get rid off most of the orchestras but every time they try there’s an outcry from the “elite “ (like me I guess ). Sadly for local radio the “elite “ don’t give a stuff about them- apart from a few MP’s denied an outlet.
Afternoon concert is now put together with whatever can be found cheaply or for free from EBU recordings and repeats. You get what you pay for in this world. On the other hand given a free hand in the corp I reckon I could save enough money there to have the Berlin Phil on every afternoon. Unlike that band It wouldn’t be pretty though.

[cloughie]

The reason Afternoon Concert is the way it is - it’s MONEY . Prelockdown entire special concerts done by BBC orchestras were either broadcast live or prerecorded often with an audience. The BBC concert orchestra filled many of the slots .Just flicked through genome and found dozens of examples from 2018 and 2019. Come lockdown - no live concerts and initially very few recordings. Also during lockdown the Beeb had more or less a total funding freeze. So what better than to continue the lockdown practice of a cobble together.I bet the audience figures went up as well.
Most Beeb departments have had in effect a 30 per cent cut - arguably more because broadcasting costs have gone up over and above inflation . My previous department in TV was entirely closed and 100 plus people thrown out of work. Since then Local radio has been completely laid waste. You might not believe this but Radio 3 has got off relatively lightly. There are dozens of senior managers in the BBC aching to get rid off most of the orchestras but every time they try there’s an outcry from the “elite “ (like me I guess ). Sadly for local radio the “elite “ don’t give a stuff about them- apart from a few MP’s denied an outlet.
Afternoon concert is now put together with whatever can be found cheaply or for free from EBU recordings and repeats. You get what you pay for in this world. On the other hand given a free hand in the corp I reckon I could save enough money there to have the Berlin Phil on every afternoon. Unlike that band It wouldn’t be pretty though.

There are dozens of orchestral musicians aching to get rid of BBC senior managers - no doubt one of the areas which your free hand would save loads!

[oddoneout]

The reason Afternoon Concert is the way it is - it’s MONEY . Prelockdown entire special concerts done by BBC orchestras were either broadcast live or prerecorded often with an audience. The BBC concert orchestra filled many of the slots .Just flicked through genome and found dozens of examples from 2018 and 2019. Come lockdown - no live concerts and initially very few recordings. Also during lockdown the Beeb had more or less a total funding freeze. So what better than to continue the lockdown practice of a cobble together.I bet the audience figures went up as well.
Most Beeb departments have had in effect a 30 per cent cut - arguably more because broadcasting costs have gone up over and above inflation . My previous department in TV was entirely closed and 100 plus people thrown out of work. Since then Local radio has been completely laid waste. You might not believe this but Radio 3 has got off relatively lightly. There are dozens of senior managers in the BBC aching to get rid off most of the orchestras but every time they try there’s an outcry from the “elite “ (like me I guess ). Sadly for local radio the “elite “ don’t give a stuff about them- apart from a few MP’s denied an outlet.
Afternoon concert is now put together with whatever can be found cheaply or for free from EBU recordings and repeats. You get what you pay for in this world. On the other hand given a free hand in the corp I reckon I could save enough money there to have the Berlin Phil on every afternoon. Unlike that band It wouldn’t be pretty though.

I accept the part that money or lack of it plays and I'm also aware that R3 could have suffered much more than it has to date*. What I don't understand(and therefore find hard to accept) is why use of limited resources should result in such a pig's ear of a programme. Access to EBU material and repeats shouldn't have to mean chop them up, throw the bits in a bucket, pull out enough to fill the time available(less now with the addition of chat'n'ads), and throw them together in no particular order around the 3pm "big work". Or is this the result of using a beta version of AI rather than humans to save even more money?

* Not least because it has parallels, if on a very different scale, with where I worked. Bad as things became(and will continue to be) we had to remind ourselves that in other parts of the country such departments were being axed wholesale.

[mopsus]

The reason Afternoon Concert is the way it is - it’s MONEY . Prelockdown entire special concerts done by BBC orchestras were either broadcast live or prerecorded often with an audience.

I think live concerts in the Afternoon Concert slot were an innovation about 10-15 years ago? I recall hearing one from (I think) Manchester being announced with a great fanfare as being the first live edition of the program.

[Ein Heldenleben]

There are dozens of orchestral musicians aching to get rid of BBC senior managers - no doubt one of the areas which your free hand would save loads!

Funnily enough there’s been quite a big management cull over the years ( I was one as well as being a hands -on programme maker) . I would look much more at inflated production costs in TV (don’t know enough about radio which I suspect is tight ) with particular reference to producer productivity and why TV drama crews in UK TV are double the size of those in Scandinavia drama . Also presenter inflated costs , HR , central costs . It’s all rather technical and boring but that’s what it comes down to.
But there also has to be a strategic review of what the BBC is for. One thing it is doing rather well at is in drawing in commercial income.Its just a had a record year doing that while at same time axing swathes of explicitly public service out put eg local radio , world service , news and regional TV.

[Ein Heldenleben]

[QUOTE=mopsus;n1295105]

I think live concerts in the Afternoon Concert slot were an innovation about 10-15 years ago? I recall hearing one from (I think) Manchester being announced with a great fanfare as being the first live edition of the program.
[/QUOTE

When I looked at genome it seems the afternoon concerts go back to the 1920’s - when they must have been live. They must be the amongst the longest running progs on the Beeb .