Afternoon Concert - general thread

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm listening to the Afternoon Concert at the moment. It's very varied, and some of it is interesting. There is a slight snag. What is being performed seems to bear no relation to what is being listed.
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001svr7)

Or is what is listed only a selection of what is broadcast?

That’s the listing for the Lunchtime concert which might explain the problem.
PS welcome !

[Russ]

Oh yes, thanks, silly me. I must have just kept listening to the Lunchtime concert and not kept attention to what was going on.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Oh yes, thanks, silly me. I must have just kept listening to the Lunchtime concert and not kept attention to what was going on.

Thing is the Afternoon Concert listings are often wrong so it’s quite possible there are unlisted works on this PM. It’s a long-standing problem.

[oddoneout]

I'm listening to the Afternoon Concert at the moment. It's very varied, and some of it is interesting. There is a slight snag. What is being performed seems to bear no relation to what is being listed.
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001svr7)

Or is what is listed only a selection of what is broadcast?

It's very varied, and some of it is interesting.

That's a diplomatic way of putting it!
Where to start with this one! The initial blurb is not a complete listing - it used to indicate that by saying "including", but for some time they haven't bothered. The "Music Played" list will start with a filler or two to bridge the transition between the end of Lunchtime recital and the start of AC, so that doesn't get it off to a good start. What follows will include both the items in the preview listing, and what is actually played, which will include several bits not so listed(as you have noticed). That's when it's all working...
However it doesn't always work like that so there may be completely wrong items listed, or omissions, or just so slow to update that it's several items behind - on a bad day the programme has long finished and the list is still incomplete. A fortnight ago they tried a new wheeze - put the 3pm major work item at the beginning of the Music Played list so that it looked as if it had been and gone - which was puzzling when it then appeared at 3pm. The first attempt at that compounded the confusion by listing the Chausson symphony with two different sets of details so that it looked like 2 separate works, one at the beginning of the programme and one at 3pm. Not being familiar with the work(however it was titled ) and having missed the first 30 mins or so of the programme I was completely thrown by hearing things which just didn't make sense! I notice that the duplicate entry at 3pm has now been edited, so the listing shows it as having been played just at the beginning of the sequence - which it wasn't.
Heigh ho. Time was when much of it was actually a concert, and there were approximate timings for the items in the preview, so that it was possible to keep track of what was being played.
Now it's just a variation of the morning schedules with filleted and stripped pieces,(single movements, and sequences or perhaps even an opera split up over several days) and deconstructed recorded concerts - because whoever put the original concert together didn't do it well enough to warrant being broadcast as played.

BTW that link was for the Lunchtime Concert rather than Afternoon Concert.
Apologies, that has already been mentioned - I took a while posting a reply so others had got there before me!

[Serial_Apologist]

I was completely thrown by hearing things which just didn't make sense!

Welcome to my brain then! Regarding your bigger point, the transitions between Lunchtime and Afternoon concerts make it understandable that Russ confused the two programmes. As with modern-day TV advertising slots, one ad leads into the next, such being the opmni-pressure to sell sell sell, so that one is no longer sure which product is being promoted. It seems to be consciously aligned with the latest ruse to re-fuel the capitalist imperative to "consume, conform, obey"!

[oddoneout]

Welcome to my brain then! Regarding your bigger point, the transitions between Lunchtime and Afternoon concerts make it understandable that Russ confused the two programmes. As with modern-day TV advertising slots, one ad leads into the next, such being the opmni-pressure to sell sell sell, so that one is no longer sure which product is being promoted. It seems to be consciously aligned with the latest ruse to re-fuel the capitalist imperative to "consume, conform, obey"!

It is I think the messiest part of the day's output. A live recital which may or may not finish at the right time and then the One o'clock News to be slotted in before the Afternoon Concert begins requires a certain amount of juggling anyway, but then inserting bits from Ian Skelly who mostly does the AC slot plus any music fillers prefacing AC proper around those bits of adjustment and the news makes for a needlessly tangled few minutes.

[Andrew Slater]

A fortnight ago they tried a new wheeze - put the 3pm major work item at the beginning of the Music Played list so that it looked as if it had been and gone - which was puzzling when it then appeared at 3pm. The first attempt at that compounded the confusion by listing the Chausson symphony with two different sets of details so that it looked like 2 separate works, one at the beginning of the programme and one at 3pm. Not being familiar with the work(however it was titled ) and having missed the first 30 mins or so of the programme I was completely thrown by hearing things which just didn't make sense! I notice that the duplicate entry at 3pm has now been edited, so the listing shows it as having been played just at the beginning of the sequence - which it wasn't.
Heigh ho.

I think this is a result of their playing a snippet of the 3pm piece shortly after the beginning of the programme. Both the snippet and the main appear in the playlist, and as there's no indication of the timing or duration of any playlist entries, it's understandably bewildering. As you say, it looks as if somebody has tried to edit the playlist of the 20th November and they have deleted the wrong Chausson entry by mistake. I notice that yesterday's AC has two entries for Elgar's Cello Concerto, one for the snippet and one for the actual broadcast. I wonder what will become of them...

[Ein Heldenleben]

It is I think the messiest part of the day's output. A live recital which may or may not finish at the right time and then the One o'clock News to be slotted in before the Afternoon Concert begins requires a certain amount of juggling anyway, but then inserting bits from Ian Skelly who mostly does the AC slot plus any music fillers prefacing AC proper around those bits of adjustment and the news makes for a needlessly tangled few minutes.

Forgive me but the Afternoon sequence goes
12.00 COTW - recorded predictable duration

13.00 News live but duration is easily controlled by the subs who produce it

13.03 (approx ) Lunchtime concert often live. The producer and assistant should have timed the performance at the rehearsal. It always amazes me how little this overruns (never seems to underun). I worked on this a few times and it was always very professionally produced and presented.

14.00 and then as you say the unpredictable pot pourri that is Afternoon concert which is largely recorded with live annos, trials , look aheads . In the old days all the timings would be done off track listings together with stopwatches and use of the analogue studio clock. Even now I’m reasonably good at adding 12’32” to 10 ‘51 and then deducting the total from 20’ 59 ‘ 50” - a quite useless skill in real life. Nowadays it’s no doubt all done by computer . Don’t know about radio but In TV news they used to have an automated production assistant called digital Dorothy.

I would disagree about it being “messy”. I think it’s very slick. But then I’ve worked in quite a lot news and live programmes where it’s a miracle that things get on air some nights .

[LMcD]

Confined to bed by a heavy cold and persistent cough, I had the opportunity to hear all of today's Afternoon Concert, which featured works by no fewer than 16 composers. Needless to say, some pieces were in the form of snippets and bleeding chunks, including 1 movement of a ;major' string quartet by Philip Glass.

[oddoneout]

I think this is a result of their playing a snippet of the 3pm piece shortly after the beginning of the programme. Both the snippet and the main appear in the playlist, and as there's no indication of the timing or duration of any playlist entries, it's understandably bewildering. As you say, it looks as if somebody has tried to edit the playlist of the 20th November and they have deleted the wrong Chausson entry by mistake. I notice that yesterday's AC has two entries for Elgar's Cello Concerto, one for the snippet and one for the actual broadcast. I wonder what will become of them...

That's a thought - but not a good one! We already get filleted pieces, how much smaller will/can the snippets get and still be listed as "Music Played"?

[oddoneout]

Forgive me but the Afternoon sequence goes
12.00 COTW - recorded predictable duration

13.00 News live but duration is easily controlled by the subs who produce it

13.03 (approx ) Lunchtime concert often live. The producer and assistant should have timed the performance at the rehearsal. It always amazes me how little this overruns (never seems to underun). I worked on this a few times and it was always very professionally produced and presented.

14.00 and then as you say the unpredictable pot pourri that is Afternoon concert which is largely recorded with live annos, trials , look aheads . In the old days all the timings would be done off track listings together with stopwatches and use of the analogue studio clock. Even now I’m reasonably good at adding 12’32” to 10 ‘51 and then deducting the total from 20’ 59 ‘ 50” - a quite useless skill in real life. Nowadays it’s no doubt all done by computer . Don’t know about radio but In TV news they used to have an automated production assistant called digital Dorothy.

I would disagree about it being “messy”. I think it’s very slick. But then I’ve worked in quite a lot news and live programmes where it’s a miracle that things get on air some nights .

My apologies, I was writing too quickly and in an irritable frame of mind so accuracy suffered, notably the lunchtime news.

[Ein Heldenleben]

My apologies, I was writing too quickly and in an irritable frame of mind so accuracy suffered, notably the lunchtime news.

Your more important point about the frustrating inaccuracies of the website stands . I just let the whole sequence wash over me and if I hear a piece I don’t recognise or I hear a performer I want named I hope to either catch the back ref or the website is correct.

[oddoneout]

Bach's B Minor Mass has been the "lucky recipient" of the serialisation treatment this week. Bad enough in itself but the concluding movements today were followed by Gershwin's "Strike up the band".
Dona nobis pacem - if only...

[hmvman]

Bach's B Minor Mass has been the "lucky recipient" of the serialisation treatment this week. Bad enough in itself but the concluding movements today were followed by Gershwin's "Strike up the band".
Dona nobis pacem - if only...

[smittims]

Yes, that was when I switched off. I might have enjoyed the Gershwin another time , but after a 'bleeding chunk' of Bach it was too much . I suppose the argument is that Bach didn't intend the Mass to be played all at once , but it does suggest the old BBC assumption that we have a short attention-span unless it's sugared with a dose of Gershwin.