Afternoon Concert - general thread

[Nick Armstrong]

Quite possibly. I don't know which irritates more, the thought that it is an oversight (lack of attention to detail) or that it was done knowingly which suggests don't care.

My thought too, exactly

[Cockney Sparrow]

My reaction, from the years to retirement in the Civil Service, is that its very reminiscent of stripping costs (so staff participation) out of processes with no regard for quality or reliability. It may well be that there is some oversight of data entry for all the radio stations, so quite likely the staff in question, to the extent they are involved, are quite likely to have no awareness of classical music, but will be under pressure to get the job done. (Also, its quite likely to be contracted out.....don't imagine they hire music graduates to toil away on that sort of work...).

I find it infuriating to get the invites to contribute to surveys as to my views on the website when it is carefully structured to show they are doing jolly well with their "improvements".

If I am really exercised by a matter (and I can see here how the playlist issue grates...) then I try to find the time to make a complaint. Really, anything short of that is bound to be a fob-off. At least a complaint goes into the stats, even thought the response is likely a fob off from the BBC as is usual. I haven't yet had the stamina to try contesting a complaint beyond a fob-off but if I had the time, I imagine it might involve OFFCOM. (My last complaint involved Emma Barnett - in relation to an opening tirade at Bernard Jenkin which made him look reasonable (quite an achievement) playing into the hands of the Tory anti-BBC rhetoric. Fobbed off, of course.....)

Trying to find a complaint facility in the iPlayer or Sounds finds nothing - it always moves around. On the main BBC pages - today - it can be found:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact[/url] ---> [url]https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

(I think I'm turning into a blend of Ed Reardon and Victor Meldrew - its not good for my blood pressure though - literally....)

[Ein Heldenleben]

A different kind of oddity today. For the afternoon concert, this was the listing:



Not 10 hours later, on TTN, we find this:



Right hands & left hands in mutual ignorance, presumably… plus a drive for lots of cost-saving recycling

I think mistakes like this are incredibly rare. For what it’s worth many years ago Radio 3 had a computer programme called (I think ) Orpheus which stopped such duplication . In particular separate producers selecting the same performance of the same work on the same day or week .I would imagine that programme or something similar still operates which makes me think that it might be that that the TTN people in Europe changed the running order at the last minute with the BBC having already selected that concert for transmission as part of the AC strand. I don’t think the BBC has complete authority over what goes out on TTN. I have a number of former colleagues still working in both TV and Radio and understand that working conditions at the moment are, to put it mildly, difficult - particularly as the ping rate goes up. .If you are concerned I would suggest emailing . Whenever I have had cause to do so - usually on engineering and technical issues - I unfailingly receive a polite and timely reply.

[oddoneout]

I think mistakes like this are incredibly rare. For what it’s worth many years ago Radio 3 had a computer programme called (I think ) Orpheus which stopped such duplication . In particular separate producers selecting the same performance of the same work on the same day or week .I would imagine that programme or something similar still operates which makes me think that it might be that that the TTN people in Europe changed the running order at the last minute with the BBC having already selected that concert for transmission as part of the AC strand. I don’t think the BBC has complete authority over what goes out on TTN. I have a number of former colleagues still working in both TV and Radio and understand that working conditions at the moment are, to put it mildly, difficult - particularly as the ping rate goes up. .If you are concerned I would suggest emailing . Whenever I have had cause to do so - usually on engineering and technical issues - I unfailingly receive a polite and timely reply.

But is/was it a mistake? I'm afraid that recent fiddling with TTN does tend to reduce somewhat the capacity for allowing benefit of the doubt. As far as duplication more generally goes there have been occasions in recent months where I've wondered if there has been a challenge gone out to see how often the same piece can be played in the same week or, on more than one occasion the same day/consecutive days. I appreciate that working conditions currently are not the best but the drift to lack of attention to detail and accuracy had already started before the pandemic.

[Ein Heldenleben]

But is/was it a mistake? I'm afraid that recent fiddling with TTN does tend to reduce somewhat the capacity for allowing benefit of the doubt. As far as duplication more generally goes there have been occasions in recent months where I've wondered if there has been a challenge gone out to see how often the same piece can be played in the same week or, on more than one occasion the same day/consecutive days. I appreciate that working conditions currently are not the best but the drift to lack of attention to detail and accuracy had already started before the pandemic.

Why not write in and find out? Strikes me repeating an entire concert in a different show is bit unusual . I don’t know anything about current Radio scheduling but I know that all major TV channels have a huge scheduling problem at the moment with so little drama shot last summer . I’ve also heard that even now on location everything but everything is taking longer.

[oddoneout]

Why not write in and find out? Strikes me repeating an entire concert in a different show is bit unusual . I don’t know anything about current Radio scheduling but I know that all major TV channels have a huge scheduling problem at the moment with so little drama shot last summer . I’ve also heard that even now on location everything but everything is taking longer.

I did contact them and received the following

This wasn’t intentional – different programmes at Radio 3 can access the same material from the European Broadcasting Union. We try very hard not to clash with each other with our programming, but clearly something went wrong on this occasion!

which is reassuring, that it doesn't signify another bit of TTN tampering.

[Bryn]

I did contact them and received the following

which is reassuring, that it doesn't signify another bit of TTN tampering.

Ah, left hand, right hand, eh? Who'd have guessed?

[oddoneout]

Ah, left hand, right hand, eh? Who'd have guessed?

And perhaps Orpheus (#168) has returned to the underworld?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I did contact them and received the following

which is reassuring, that it doesn't signify another bit of TTN tampering.

Good detective work . So it was a good old fashioned c*** up !

[Ein Heldenleben]

And perhaps Orpheus (#168) has returned to the underworld?

Always a mistake to look over your shoulder . Another example of the triumph of progress . Orpheus was a 1980s bit of kit - probably ran on an Amstrad….

[Serial_Apologist]

And perhaps Orpheus (#168) has returned to the underworld?

He won't have to wear his mask!

[oddoneout]

Good detective work . So it was a good old fashioned c*** up !

Can't take credit for that, I just emailed the programme with the question and had a pleasant email back from someone who was happy for me to share the answer.
Bit of a contrast to sending a thank you to Breakfast for the Yorkshire journey project, which just generated an auto reply to the effect they were too busy with the vast volume of mail they receive to respond to mine.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Can't take credit for that, I just emailed the programme with the question and had a pleasant email back from someone who was happy for me to share the answer.
Bit of a contrast to sending a thank you to Breakfast for the Yorkshire journey project, which just generated an auto reply to the effect they were too busy with the vast volume of mail they receive to respond to mine.

It’s interesting : Biddy Baxter , who was the editor of Blue Peter for decades , was so irritated by getting the same reply twice from ‘Enid Blyton’ to a fan letter she determined that all children would get an individual reply every time they wrote in . She kept all correspondence on file to ensure that happened.

[oddoneout]

The online schedules for Afternoon Concert have been particularly bad recently in terms of bearing some relationship to what is played, something which becomes glaringly obvious once the full "Music played" list appears. I emailed twice last week to ask why and give examples, needless to say no response, not even autoreply now. This week I notice that the word "Including" appears above the schedule, perhaps as a copout? Trouble is that of the 6 pieces actually played/currently playing in this first hour only one is in that schedule. So will the remaining pieces all appear as writ in the less than 2 hours(as I write 1 hr45) or so I wonder? Who knows, it's a bit like a full fat (ie whole items) version of Breakfast and Essential Classics. Less chat but still crass adverts, and no way of knowing what is going to be played when. I realise that those who, like me, listen in real time are negligible and ignorable, but don't those who listen differently use the schedules at all, eg to see what's on for later perusal?
The (non-publicised) Haydn Cello concerto has just finished and we are back with the published list, having apparently left out a Shostakovitch concerto and Schubert symphony - except that of course they may appear later...

[Serial_Apologist]

The online schedules for Afternoon Concert have been particularly bad recently in terms of bearing some relationship to what is played, something which becomes glaringly obvious once the full "Music played" list appears. I emailed twice last week to ask why and give examples, needless to say no response, not even autoreply now. This week I notice that the word "Including" appears above the schedule, perhaps as a copout? Trouble is that of the 6 pieces actually played/currently playing in this first hour only one is in that schedule. So will the remaining pieces all appear as writ in the less than 2 hours(as I write 1 hr45) or so I wonder? Who knows, it's a bit like a full fat (ie whole items) version of Breakfast and Essential Classics. Less chat but still crass adverts, and no way of knowing what is going to be played when. I realise that those who, like me, listen in real time are negligible and ignorable, but don't those who listen differently use the schedules at all, eg to see what's on for later perusal?
The (non-publicised) Haydn Cello concerto has just finished and we are back with the published list, having apparently left out a Shostakovitch concerto and Schubert symphony - except that of course they may appear later...

And yet, they are included in this week's Radio Times - almost as if intending to needle those who don't buy the mag. First the Prokofiev Classical Symphony, then Shostakovitch's PC No 1, both from the Verbier Festival. This is followed by Schubert Symph 6 from Schleswig-Halstein Festival, Kahn's Serenade Op 73 from Solsberg Festival, ending with Anno Schreier's Sinfonia amoroso e guiocosa from a Brussels festival, the programme all ending at 5pm. Or is it the order in which the works are actually being broadcast that is problematic? I'm afraid I haven't been following this afternoon's concert.