Afternoon Concert - general thread

[Ein Heldenleben]

I was comparing the September figures from last year and the year before - 2.165m in Sept 2021 down to 1.708m in 2022, ranked as one of the lowest ever. I make that a drop of 21% and it was my response to the claim that the aim of Radio 3's changes over recent years was to attract more listeners; and concluded that on that basis the strategy was not working. How one describes a fall of 21% year on year, and taking all things into consideration (2.165m is a good figure), may vary depending on differing interests.



I would absolutely, categorically dispute that. Share simply records the length of time listeners tune in to a station. It matters to commercial networks because the longer a listener is tuned in the more adverts they hear and the more attractive the station is to advertisers. It was always accepted that Radio 3 had more selective listeners who might tune in for only one or a two programmes which really interested them. Radio 3 has jumped on the bandwagon of trying to get listeners to listen for longer - hence fewer distinct programmes and longer programmes stripped through the week to cut down on the potential switch off times. That may have worked, but some may feel that getting listeners listening to dross for 5 hours in the background would be less what R3 should be doing than broadcasting shorter programmes which attract more focused listening.

Radio 3’s reach in Q4 of 2018 (1.8 mill) was exactly the same as Q4 2022 . Hardly a disastrous fall. You are not going to win arguments over Radio 3’s content by looking at its audience figures because that is not the prime driver of editorial decisions on that channel.

[french frank]

All the main BBC Radio networks have suffered a decline in reach as streaming services and large well funded competitors have entered the market. . What would be significant is if Radio 3 was an outlier ie had suffered a substantially higher decline.To describe it as “disastrous” is an exaggeration.

I was comparing the September figures from last year and the year before - 2.165m in Sept 2021 down to 1.708m in 2022, ranked as one of the lowest ever. I make that a drop of 21% and it was my response to the claim that the aim of Radio 3's changes over recent years was to attract more listeners; and concluded that on that basis the strategy was not working. How one describes a fall of 21% year on year, and taking all things into consideration (2.165m is a good figure), may vary depending on differing interests.

Its share figures are what really matters and these are holding up reasonably well.

I would absolutely, categorically dispute that. Share simply records the length of time listeners tune in to a station. It matters to commercial networks because the longer a listener is tuned in the more adverts they hear and the more attractive the station is to advertisers. It was always accepted that Radio 3 had more selective listeners who might tune in for only one or a two programmes which really interested them. Radio 3 has jumped on the bandwagon of trying to get listeners to listen for longer - hence fewer distinct programmes and longer programmes stripped through the week to cut down on the potential switch off times. That may have worked, but some may feel that getting listeners listening to dross for 5 hours in the background would be less what R3 should be doing than broadcasting shorter programmes which attract more focused listening.

[cria]

Nice Toon? Have you ever seen one after they've lost yet another football match?

[vinteuil]

I wonder which elaboration and completion of what little Mozart wrote of K 626 will be broadcast this afternoon. The online listing quite ignores the matter.

... precisely the sort of thing that a serious 'Third Programme' Radio Three could do so well, teasing out all the background and looking at various solutions to the 'problem' of the Mozart Requiem : something with a bit of cultural and intellectual heft. But not to be expected from a radio 3 looking for an audience satisfied with chat and nice toons...

.

[Bryn]

Today's offering looks good.

Ian Skelly continues a week of Afternoon Concert featuring performances from the Netherlands.

Today the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir are joined by soloists for Mozart's Requiem. Les Ambassadeurs La Grande Ecurie perform more of a concert of early music recorded at the Utrecht Early Music Festival. Plus today's concerto is Beethoven's Violin Concerto performed by Kristóf Baráti with the Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Ainars Rubikis, and the French National Orchestra plays Cesar Franck's symphonic poem, Les Djinns.

I wonder which elaboration and completion of what little Mozart wrote of K 626 will be broadcast this afternoon. The online listing quite ignores the matter.

[JasonPalmer]

Today's offering looks good.

Ian Skelly continues a week of Afternoon Concert featuring performances from the Netherlands.

Today the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir are joined by soloists for Mozart's Requiem. Les Ambassadeurs La Grande Ecurie perform more of a concert of early music recorded at the Utrecht Early Music Festival. Plus today's concerto is Beethoven's Violin Concerto performed by Kristóf Baráti with the Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Ainars Rubikis, and the French National Orchestra plays Cesar Franck's symphonic poem, Les Djinns.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Whatever the reason for the changes, they obviously aren't working in the way you say. In Q3 2022 (July-Sept) Radio 3 had a disastrously low reach, by some comparisons the lowest ever, at least the lowest for decades. The same month it was announced the controller was stepping down after 8 years. I don't think his innovations and adjustment to the target audience can be counted a success in terms of 'attracting a larger audience and ensuring continued funding'.

If you already have a loyal audience, what the point of driving them away? We've been over this many times in discussions. The main point is: should Radio 3 cater for the more esoteric tastes and 'advanced audience' and use the rest of its very extensive portfolio to cater for the broader audience with a broad remit to produce the kind of programme that Radio 3 has introduced lately? The listeners who have 'outgrown' [your word] Radio 3 and stopped listening are still licence fee payers (even me in a technical if not a literal sense).

All the main BBC Radio networks have suffered a decline in reach as streaming services and large well funded competitors have entered the market. . What would be significant is if Radio 3 was an outlier ie had suffered a substantially higher decline.To describe it as “disastrous” is an exaggeration. Its share figures are what really matters and these are holding up reasonably well. A lot better than BBC Two and Channel 4’s for example. It is very unlikely that , no matter what a Radio 3 controller does , the current audience can grow much. As I’ve said before Radio Three’s existence has little to do with audience figures and everything to do with general support for the licence fee or its eventual replacement and in that the success of BBC One and related streamed output (the iPlayer ) is the key.

[french frank]

That's an interesting observation, Jason, because I would say it's less like CFM now than it used to be - anyone remember when they had phone-ins on there? It may not be in the same league as the old 'Morning Concert' but I would say it's more listenable than 'Essential Classics' (during the week anyway, I don't listen at weekends).

But the 'phone-ins' era was a very recent one which started more or less when 'Breakfast' replaced (c. 2007?) Morning on 3 - to my mind already the most 'easy listening' programme, albeit always with complete works, and which didn't need any further popularisation. Breakfast started the bitty, chatty tradition - and phone-ins. Morning on 3 had started to get some extraneous material with the increase in news bulletins, the frequent time checks and station idents, the 'shout-outs' for concerts by amateur music groups performing in obscure church halls unlikely to be visited by 99.9% of R3 listeners, competitions for Proms tickets. That was the point at which I, with my low tolerance threshold for what I don't find interesting, switched off the morning programme in irritation. I was never a listener to the successor Breakfast.

The other thing that's occurred to me with this discussion is that 30 or 40 years ago there was more 'accessible' classical music to be found regularly on Radio 2 with programmes such as 'These You Have Loved', 'Your Hundred Best Tunes' and David Jacobs' Sunday morning programme - all of which I listened to when I was cutting my teeth on classical music. This left R3 to cater for the more advanced listener. Now that R2 has banished anything that isn't pop from its airwaves R3 has had to cater for a much wider range of listening taste.

Yes, not a new point but well worth repeating. R1 cast off its oldie presenters who moved to R2, R2's 'gerry' (geriatric) music moved to R3 and with one leap R2 became the the Nation's Favourite with by far the biggest audience of any UK station. QEF

So - back on topic - changes to Afternoon on 3 noted here by members are just a continuation of the inexorable slide: to use John Tusa's phrase, 'the flight from intelligence'.

[smittims]

I think it's only fair, in putting the 'classical music on Radio2' in context, to recall that Radio 3 had sport on Saturday afternoons then. And Radio 4, bless them, played classical music at 4 pm.I first heard Tchaikovsky's Fourth and Rachmaninov's second symphonies there in the late '60s.

[oddoneout]

That's an interesting observation, Jason, because I would say it's less like CFM now than it used to be - anyone remember when they had phone-ins on there? It may not be in the same league as the old 'Morning Concert' but I would say it's more listenable than 'Essential Classics' (during the week anyway, I don't listen at weekends).

The other thing that's occurred to me with this discussion is that 30 or 40 years ago there was more 'accessible' classical music to be found regularly on Radio 2 with programmes such as 'These You Have Loved', 'Your Hundred Best Tunes' and David Jacobs' Sunday morning programme - all of which I listened to when I was cutting my teeth on classical music. This left R3 to cater for the more advanced listener. Now that R2 has banished anything that isn't pop from its airwaves R3 has had to cater for a much wider range of listening taste.

I agree about the changes(of the right sort) to Breakfast - ditching the excruciating phone-ins, and the ridiculous backwards tune etc has meant it now has settled into a functional offering. Music, news headlines, some pointers to other music during the day etc(and of course the now compulsory adverts but there's no getting away from them now, and at least Breakfast is less of a totally unsuitable setting for such interruptions) which I find an acceptable start to the day. I don't think I am unusual in that view,judging by some chat on the subject that cropped up with friends recently. Whether it is what R3 should be doing is another argument but one I think should be targeted at EC* instead. Petroc's music list is not "your favourite tunes" on a weekly loop and more often than not includes at least something that catches my ear as unusual, unknown; whether I like it is irrelevant, it's the hearing something I don't know that is.
I agree about the gap left by changes to R2, from my student days through to about mid 30s I listened to various programmes (band and organ music generally, but also evening listening when R3 didn't appeal) on a fairly frequent basis, but their loss hasn't found a replacement anywhere.
* although given what has happened to Afternoon Concert, EC seems to be the template for R3 programmes now, so no chance of any worthwhile changes/improvements I reckon.

[edashtav]

Once again oddoneout has hit the nail on the head. What most distinguishes today's Radio Three from the Third Programme is its lack of intellectual stimulation, the sort of thing that makes one say 'I have to listen to this' rather than 'I don't mind having it on in the background'.

I agree, smittims.

[hmvman]

.. I hardly ever catch petroc and the breakfast show but it seems more cfm like than it used to be.

That's an interesting observation, Jason, because I would say it's less like CFM now than it used to be - anyone remember when they had phone-ins on there? It may not be in the same league as the old 'Morning Concert' but I would say it's more listenable than 'Essential Classics' (during the week anyway, I don't listen at weekends).

The other thing that's occurred to me with this discussion is that 30 or 40 years ago there was more 'accessible' classical music to be found regularly on Radio 2 with programmes such as 'These You Have Loved', 'Your Hundred Best Tunes' and David Jacobs' Sunday morning programme - all of which I listened to when I was cutting my teeth on classical music. This left R3 to cater for the more advanced listener. Now that R2 has banished anything that isn't pop from its airwaves R3 has had to cater for a much wider range of listening taste.

[smittims]

Once again oddoneout has hit the nail on the head. What most distinguishes today's Radio Three from the Third Programme is its lack of intellectual stimulation, the sort of thing that makes one say 'I have to listen to this' rather than 'I don't mind having it on in the background'.

[JasonPalmer]

Oh dear, did not know listeners falling. Perhaps the new controller will turn the ship around back to its old ways ?

[french frank]

I presume the new format is to attract a larger audience which helps ensure continued funding, some people somewhere are deciding what metrics to judge success by.

Whatever the reason for the changes, they obviously aren't working in the way you say. In Q3 2022 (July-Sept) Radio 3 had a disastrously low reach, by some comparisons the lowest ever, at least the lowest for decades. The same month it was announced the controller was stepping down after 8 years. I don't think his innovations and adjustment to the target audience can be counted a success in terms of 'attracting a larger audience and ensuring continued funding'.

If you already have a loyal audience, what the point of driving them away? We've been over this many times in discussions. The main point is: should Radio 3 cater for the more esoteric tastes and 'advanced audience' and use the rest of its very extensive portfolio to cater for the broader audience with a broad remit to produce the kind of programme that Radio 3 has introduced lately? The listeners who have 'outgrown' [your word] Radio 3 and stopped listening are still licence fee payers (even me in a technical if not a literal sense).