Enthusiastic presenters

[ahinton]

And I think, in fact I'm pretty damn sure, that Mandryka was being deliberately provocative in his remarks that run counter to the 'phwooooaaarrrr-phwwwooooaaarr' tendency around here where artists such as Alison Balsom are concerned (you know who you are!).

Should I presume that "'phwooooaaarrrr-phwwwooooaaarr'" is a sound made by a trumpet player when using a wah-wah mute? If so, I have no doubt that the delectable Ms Balsom - whose fine trumpet playing nevertheless interests me far more than her undeniable delectability - would be as adept as any such player in making it, if you see what I mean...

Seriously, though, John Tusa was - and still is - right, but his remark does not necesssarily of itself mean that knowledge should therefore take over from enthusiam but that a proper balance between the two should pertain and be developed by each presenter.

I agree that the undue focus on presenters is neither fair to the material presented or, for that matter, to the presenters themselves, especially in that the latter involves putting presenters under spotlights where they have no need to be.

R3 presenter gaffes are indeed sometimes rather more prevalent than the odd mere exceptional accident, but the extent to which this the fault of the presenter and that to which it may be down to the researcher (when the two are not the same person) deserves to be taken into due account.

Whilst I'm not keen to get into the naming of names, especially in any negative context, I would nevertheless cite the single example of Andrew McGregor as a presenter who seems to know as well as anyone how best to balance his enthusiasm with his knowlege and contrive thereby not to gush with the form or patronise with the latter.

Lastly, I'd be the first to admit that an R3 presenter's job is a far from easy one!

[french frank]

I doubt very much whether you work on the basis that any professional you pay to do a job shouldn't have imperfections in their work pointed out to them on the grounds that you couldn't do a better job of plastering &c. yourself.

Presenters are professionals. They're paid to do a job. And listeners are customers. Unlike you, I am not at all certain that most of the criticisms come from wannabe presenters; I'm equally certain that among those who criticise there are people who would do an excellent job.

Presenters get the flak because they are the ones exposed to public scrutiny. I take the view that if they are employed to do the job, it is management that is responsible for checking quality and deciding on qualities (i.e. the particular characteristics and whether they are desirable or not).

Statistically, the minority who complain are much more likely to have a justifiable case than the majority who don't, simply because the majority doesn't actually disagree with the minority - they just don't have any opinion at all. (And asked if, for example, they are 'satisfied' with the presentation they will say 'yes' ).

I find that, taken together, the individual details which you seem to suggest people should keep to themselves very interesting in trying to understand the kind of presentation that people seem to either want or dislike. It isn't the individual detail, it's the general picture.

[Word]

French Frank, all the Radio 3 presenters are undoubtedly professionals and, unlike the antics that we hear about on other stations, I'm sure they never turn up for work drunk or treat the station as their own personal plaything (i.e. without the respect it and its audience deserve).

Certainly some have 'encyclopaedic knowledge' in a particular field, which is important when the presenter is exploring new works and recommending lesser known recordings for his or her audience, but most programmes are not of that format and for the remainder it is not necessarily an advantage. (It may be one less stick for the critics but in such situations it's undoubtedly the critics who are at fault.)

As for Ariosto's 'cloth eared' comment regarding Rob Cowan and Katie Derham's praise for Midori's Walton; to me that seemed to be a light-hearted response to a difference of opinion regarding the work in question. Sure there will always be a little pressure on presenters to be positive but RC and KD expressed opinions that match those I have read elsewhere. (Unfortunately I and my recording of Saturday's Prom are still separated by quite some distance and a slow Internet connection so I haven't had a chance to make up my own mind regarding the performance.)

[ahinton]

Me neither, but I do know she sends all the foot fetishists into a tizzy when she dangles her shoe. Don't forget to read all the Youtube comments--creepertastic! And there's the matter of a certain photo from the Guardian last February of someone who could definitely be the next myfriendsfeet sock enthusiast poster boy. I mean seriously now. Check out the arches on that guy--yow!!! So between the two of them, I'd say Radio 3 has an entirely new "community of interest" covered, wouldn't you?

(French) Frankly, my dear, I don't give a dirham...

[morebritishmusicplease]

Enthusiasm, or knowledge?

I have no objection to enthusiastic presenters, on occasion (though in general I would prefer a return to the concept of 'announcers') - as long as the enthusiasm is based on real knowledge and understanding, rather than empty verbiage. Rob Cowan is a good example of someone who has an encyclopaedic knowledge of music, especially of recordings, and a true enthusiasm about it all that comes across without excessive gushing and verbal twaddle. This is quite different from the kind of 'presentation' that is all too common now on R3 and consists of statements of subjective opinion and personal anecdotes, bolstered by a line from Wikipedia 'researched' by some unfortunate teenager on work experience in a backroom and based on little or no knowledge of the subject at all!

Still - things could be worse! The TV presentation of the Proms is the epitome of empty verbiage and superficiality - get in one or two irrelevant 'celebs' and let them waffle on for a bit to (probably grossly overpaid) people like Charles Hazlewood for ten minutes so as to put any sane and self-respecting viewer off the concert altogether - heypresto!

What happened to the intelligent BBC I grew up with and which formed an important part of my musical education? Remember when people like Hans Keller and Robert Simpson gave 'talks' on R3? Remember the concept of the 'talk'? Probably not, if you're under 40. Sigh.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Talking of Hans Keller, I thought of him as being supremely dull and dalek-like when one of his little talks was being used as a "filler". But what knowledge and experience he exuded. Sometimes it's difficult to achieve the perfect balance.

[Ariosto]

As for Ariosto's 'cloth eared' comment regarding Rob Cowan and Katie Derham's praise for Midori's Walton; to me that seemed to be a light-hearted response to a difference of opinion regarding the work in question. Sure there will always be a little pressure on presenters to be positive but RC and KD expressed opinions that match those I have read elsewhere. (Unfortunately I and my recording of Saturday's Prom are still separated by quite some distance and a slow Internet connection so I haven't had a chance to make up my own mind regarding the performance.)

In fact my "cloth eared" comment was ONLY directed at K Derham because I only heard this Prom on a delayed TV broadcast. Generally I like RC and I'm really surprised that he liked Midori. Although I've no idea what RC said, it makes me wonder if the producers insist on a lot of praise from presenters even when they would rather not say anything, or make a critical comment.

That's why I think ALL announcers should ONLY make factual comments and not give their opinion of a performance, at least on these sort of programmes, be they on TV or radio. (Discussion programmes like CD review and others are of course different).

We do need a new professionalism from presenters, and not have to put up with the sort of celebrity status of people like KD.

[Osborn]

...the kind of 'presentation' that is all too common now ...bolstered by a line from Wikipedia 'researched' by some unfortunate teenager on work experience in a backroom and based on little or no knowledge of the subject at all!

That is so obviously total and utter nonsense that you have derailed the rest of you post, which I now can't be bothered to read.

[Ariosto]

Me neither, but I do know she sends all the foot fetishists into a tizzy when she dangles her shoe. Don't forget to read all the Youtube comments--creepertastic! And there's the matter of a certain photo from the Guardian last February of someone who could definitely be the next myfriendsfeet sock enthusiast poster boy. I mean seriously now. Check out the arches on that guy--yow!!! So between the two of them, I'd say Radio 3 has an entirely new "community of interest" covered, wouldn't you?

OR: Your comments are inappropriate and offend me.



Yeah, because we all know a bunch of introverts mumbling into a microphone makes for great television. The ideal medium for them, really.

Cavatina, I suppose I must reluctantly congratulate you on your managing to "Americanise" the posts about K Derham, presenters generally, the BBC, and many other posts about the Proms, and I suppose it gives us all a new light into the way the American mind works. Your thirst for experiences is admirable, and I think we should all benefit from your wide and expert knowledge of all things, including feet.

In future I will try and take your input seriously ...

[Bryn]

I've no idea what RC said ...

I hope you are sitting down and in a calm frame of mind, Aristo. He said her playing was "almost Heifetzian in its intensity".

[Ariosto]

I hope you are sitting down and in a calm frame of mind, Aristo. He said here playing was "almost Heifetzian in its intensity".

Words fail me. Having listen twice now to the Heifetz rendition - it sounded like a different piece of music. Maybe since Rob has been doing the breakfast programme his critical faculties have left him.

[Word]

I hope you are sitting down and in a calm frame of mind, Aristo. He said here playing was "almost Heifetzian in its intensity".

Thank you for the quote Bryn.

Ariosto, I believe it was RC's earlier comments during the radio broadcast that had prompted the discussion and disagreement, rather than KD's during the delayed television broadcast, hence I gave you the benefit of any doubt I may have had.

[Osborn]

...the minority who complain are much more likely to have a justifiable case than the majority who don't...

Just because a few people complain doesn't make them right, particularly if they are selfish moans and whinges which would deprive a vast majority of a service they are happy with. It isn't acceptable for the oldies to say "this is our little clique, Radio 3 is for us, we like outmoded, old fashioned things, if you don't like what we like go somewhere else until you get old as well."

...but standards of presentation on Radio 3 have deteriorated....

Or we can say "Standards of presentation on Radio 3 are being brought up to date."

...won't bring any particular names into the discussion, but not all R3 presenters are knowledgeable, and they aren't made so by declaring that they are.

This isn't University Challenge so how do you/we know if the unidentified "theys" are knowledgeable or not. For example, does Rob Cowan (who's socks everyone seems to want to kiss) really have encyclopaedic knowledge or or does he just know how to gather facts for his scripts? I don't know which presenters you've heard declaring themselves knowledgeable; it seems a funny thing to do.

[Bryn]

Rob Cowan.

[Bryn]

By the way, did anyone here who attended Prom 21 notice whether Rob was wearing his headphones during the Walton? If so, that might have coloured his perception of Midori's sound somewhat, though I still don't understand how he could judge her playing to be of an intensity close to that of Heifetz.