Bach Cantatas in order

[verismissimo]

Who was it said that they had listened to JSB's cantatas in order of the church year, ie at the times for which they were composed? Terrific idea.

Started today on 36, 61 and 62 (for Advent Sunday). Beginning of the church year.

Anyone else taking this journey?

This is the order: http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/c.../thematic.html

[Roehre]

Yes, I started last year with Advent, and have now listened to some 150-odd of them.

The ones which aren't related to a sunday within the church year will fill the gaps in 2011, as do the secular cantatas (BWV 201-218) as well as the attributed ones.

Please note that no JSB-cantata for Advent 2 and 3 have survived.

As Easter is late in 2011, there aren't Sundays Trinity 24, 25, 26 and 27. (BWV 26,60/ 90,116/ 70/ 140, meaning that one of the most popular cantatas, Wachet auf ruft uns die Stimme [140], has no place in the 2011 ecclesiastical calendar )

There are a couple of cantatas which are meant for a specific DATE, not a specific sunday:
February 2nd: BWV 82-83-125-157-158-161 and 200
March 25th: BWV 1 and 182 (the latter is used for Palmarum as well)
June 24th: BWV 7, 30 and 167
July 2nd: BWV 10 and 147
September 29th: BWV 19, 50, 130 and 149
October 31st: BWV 79 and 80.

194 is meant for the inauguration of an ewly built organ
BWV 29, 69, 71, 119, 120 and 193 for the installation of a new town council
BWV 195, 196, 197 are wedding cantatas
BWV 106, 157 and 198 are funeral cantatas
BWV 97, 100, 117, 131, 150 and 192 are loose church cantatas for special circumstances, most likely performed just once in JSB's lifetime.

[David Underdown]

Not in order, nor was it possible to put every cantata on its correct day, but on 12 December I shall singing in the chorus for the performance in the last two of Bach's cantatas in a series which will have taken 13 years to complete (I haven't sung in every one either), see http://www.smaaa.org.uk/news_events/BachCantatas.html. Those invovled will have one last hurrah in the form of a performance of the B Minor Mass next February.

[verismissimo]

If I'd been paying more attention at TOP, I'd have picked your cantata listening as a pilgrimage last year, Roehre. Thanks for your kind and detailed notes.

And for your post, David. Toi toi for 12 December

[Lion-of-Vienna]

What a marvellous idea, Verismissimo, but one that will take a lot of dedication to complete without missing any. Good luck! I have listened to all of the cantatas in the order in which they appear in the Bach Edition box but if I tried to do them in the correct order throughout the church year I wouldn't get past Christmas.

Can anyone tell me if there is any reasoning behind the currently used BWV numbering system for the cantatas? Unlike the numbering of the Haydn symphonies there seems to be no logic behind the system that I can work out.

[Hitch]

The "Bach Cantatas Website" is a little unwieldy but contains lots of pertinent information.

[Roehre]

Can anyone tell me if there is any reasoning behind the currently used BWV numbering system for the cantatas? Unlike the numbering of the Haydn symphonies there seems to be no logic behind the system that I can work out.

Schmieder listed the Cantatas in his 1950 Bach Werke Verzeichnis in the order in which they were originally published in the (first, 19th C.) Bach Gesamtausgabe (for which Brahms e.g. did quite a lot of work). The BGA took 48 years to complete (1851-1899, with a supplement in 1926). In those years it was very difficult to put hand on the manuscripts in order to edit and publish them anyway, let alone in a chronological, ecclesiastical or alphabetical order. As soon as an original score (or a copy) reached Leipzig, it was edited and published. Thus it is a completely opportunistic order.

[Btw, you can imagine the enormous task one Ritter von Köchel did in the 1850s-1865 in completing the Köchel-Verzeichnis in an age with reliable mail but without photocopiers, telefax, telephone let alone email (with photcopies as attachments) !]

[rank_and_file]

verismissiono - agree with the idea absolulely - but quite an outlay! Great shame that Radio 3 broadcast so few of the cantatas each year. I can certainly think of an early morning programme that could be shortened to make way for a complete Bach cantata!

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I can certainly think of an early morning programme that could be shortened to make way for a complete Bach cantata!

Before 'Breakfast' existed, I think that the Sunday programme ('Morning Concert' or was it 'Aubade') featured a Bach cantata for that particular day.

[Martin]

Was that in the days of Scared and Profane, IGI? Ah, but we can dream of those nostalgic times of yesteryear when early morning programming was like that, eh?

[Mark Sealey]

I love the cantatas so much that I couldn't bear to wait a week in between each one :-)

[salymap]

Wish I'd taken the Schmieder catalogue as I was the last to leave the editorial office when Augener folded; it was probably dumped.

I also, in another job [Breikopf, London] had the difficult task of typing, with differential spacing, beforecomputers, a complete Cantata catalogue with scoring,titles in German and English and duration, etc. I wonder if it still exists anywhere?

Confession time, I have a cousin who has all the JEG travels on video. They are not my favourite Bach, so shouldn't be here really, however like some of the well-known ones. [blush]

[Lion-of-Vienna]

Thanks for your explanation, Roehre. As I suspected there is no pattern behind the numbering system. There have been moves in recent decades to tinker with the numbering of groups of works by Haydn (notably the piano sonatas), Handel (the complete ouevre in HWV) and others. I hope that no one does this with the Bach cantatas as it would cause chaos (to me at least).

[verismissimo]

"Quite an outlay" says rank and file and he raises a real issue. It can be expensive to acquire a full set.

The backbone of my own set is the Holland Boys Choir/Netherlands Bach Collegium under Pieter Jan Leusink on Brilliant. They may not be BAL-standard choices, but I enjoy them a lot, and if one hunts around they are still available cheaply, either in boxes of five CDs or as a complete set.

Then I have sundry LPs, all acquired second-hand - half a dozen boxes of the pioneering Harnoncourt/Leonhardt cycle, plus various others by Souzay/Winschermann, Mathis/Lorenz/Schreier, Stolte/Mazur, Auger/Schreier, Mathis/Gonnenwein, Baker/Tear/Shirley-Quirk/Marriner and Kirkby/Thomas/Parrott.

Altogether a reasonably good spread of performing styles. Expect I'll pick up others as the year goes by and I make visits to Oxfam and Amazon.

[subcontrabass]

one of the most popular cantatas, Wachet auf ruft uns die Stimme [140], has no place in the 2011 ecclesiastical calendar )

My recollection (from studying this cantata for 'O' level many years ago) is that it was for the last Sunday before Advent, rather than for a specific numbered Sunday after Pentecost, and so therefore can appropriately be done every year.