BBC 4 announces classical music season

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Experience of self-shooting ... is highly desirable". Better listen to an entire week's broadcast of Essential Classics to put me in the right frame of mind.

[ahinton]

I've always liked Kirsty Young - better, probably, than any other presenter/host on the broadcasting media: her quietly unassuming, unpratronizing yet at the same time unobsequious manner with guests and interviewees, ever since she did Ch4 news. She actually listens rather than imposing her own viewpoint, as do most nowadays, while pretending to impartiality. And she never seems to age - just like me! or maybe that's the onset of my second childhood. (Onset?? - I hear everyone cry).

Agreed!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Probably
but don't all musicians call "concerts" gigs?

Not all. It has spread over time, beginning with those who thought it made them sound "cool".

[MrGongGong]

Not all. It has spread over time, beginning with those who thought it made them sound "cool".

My first two horn teachers were the conductor of Fodens band and a RLPO player
they both were definitely not "cool" but I do remember them talking about "gigs"

I once had a chat with Maxim Vengerov who apologised about having to rush off to a "gig"

sheltered life ?

[french frank]

My first two horn teachers were the conductor of Fodens band and a RLPO player
they both were definitely not "cool" but I do remember them talking about "gigs"

I once had a chat with Maxim Vengerov who apologised about having to rush off to a "gig"

sheltered life ?

As I said a few posts back - it's common musicians' jargon. Jargon means terminology which is used by people of the same trade, profession or group. It seems clear (to me) that this use has spread outside the profession, especially among younger people.

Some people are especially disposed to picking up and using technical jargon even though they aren't within a group which commonly uses it; other people (including me ) are less disposed to use 'other people's jargon'. Why, psychologically, people are disposed one way or the other, I wouldn't presume to know. I once used jargon like pars, cems, blacks, watching copy among people I worked with, but wouldn't dream of using them among people who I thought wouldn't understand them. (Throwing in the odd French phrase is, indisputably, an affectation )

[vinteuil]

Throwing in the odd French phrase is, indisputably, an affectation

...ça alors !


.

[french frank]

...ça alors !


.

You French are allowed to, monsieur V.!

[MrGongGong]

As I said a few posts back - it's common musicians' jargon. Jargon means terminology which is used by people of the same trade, profession or group. It seems clear (to me) that this use has spread outside the profession, especially among younger people.

Yes, that's what I said also

As a linguist i'm sure you will tell me that language evolves "if you know what I mean bro"

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Jargon means terminology which is used by people of the same trade, profession or group. It seems clear (to me) that this use has spread outside the profession, especially among younger people.

But then it's no longer "jargon" - and only the anxious among "older people" object to its use? (Whereas "pars, cems, blacks, watching copy" remains "jargon" because the words remain unknown/ambiguous to those outside the "trade" in which they are used.)

[french frank]

Yes, that's what I said also

You said half of it - that it was jargon common among among musicians, adding that (therefore?) you couldn't see the problem - you being a musician, of course.

As I said a few posts back - it's common musicians' jargon. Jargon means terminology which is used by people of the same trade, profession or group. It seems clear (to me) that this use has spread outside the profession, especially among younger people.

But then it's no longer "jargon" - and only the anxious among "older people" object to its use? (Whereas "pars, cems, blacks, watching copy" remains "jargon" because the words remain unknown/ambiguous to those outside the "trade" in which they are used.)

Not quite as clear-cut as that - in my view. I also mentioned the psycho-linguistic aspect: that some people leap more readily on to the new, the newly heard jargon. The 'young' more likely, but those who aren't 'young' aren't necessarily 'old', and 'older' is introducing an idea I didn't mention and might not agree with

For the record, my position as an "old" person is that I wouldn't use it, have no objection others using it and would usually be unsurprised at hearing which "older" people DO use it (the neologists) and which don't.

[jean]

I once had a chat with Maxim Vengerov who apologised about having to rush off to a "gig"

Many years ago, I remember John Whitworth getting us to rehearse something dal toppo.

I never heard anyone else say that, though.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But "gig" isn't "new" - it was in use when I first heard middle-aged people using it when I was fourteen (c1843), and it's now known by everyone, even those who (affect to) dislike the word: it's NOT "jargon" - "aggregation by inversional hexachordal combinatoriality" - that's jargon: "gig" isn't. It's a lovely, friendly word that shouldn't cause anyone to need to ask for an increased dose of Ramipril.

[french frank]

But "gig" isn't "new" - it was in use when I first heard middle-aged people using it when I was fourteen (c1843), and it's now known by everyone, even those who (affect to) dislike the word: it's NOT "jargon" - "aggregation by inversional hexachordal combinatoriality" - that's jargon: "gig" isn't. It's a lovely, friendly word that shouldn't cause anyone to need to ask for an increased dose of Ramipril.

Yes, it goes back to the 1920s and jazz musicians (when in print it appeared between quotes), but was still listed in the OED (updated 1972) as 'colloquial' and its usage by no means universal, as you claim. I would suggest that the closer you are to music and performers, the more likely it's become common parlance. 'A lovely, friendly word'? It's just a word. I still wouldn't use it, not being part of the (ever-increasing) circle which does.

When did people start using it as an event that they attended, rather than an event that they performed at?

[MrGongGong]

But "gig" isn't "new" - it was in use when I first heard middle-aged people using it when I was fourteen (c1843), and it's now known by everyone, even those who (affect to) dislike the word: it's NOT "jargon" - "aggregation by inversional hexachordal combinatoriality" - that's jargon: "gig" isn't. It's a lovely, friendly word that shouldn't cause anyone to need to ask for an increased dose of Ramipril.

(110/60 so 5 mg is fine for now)

It's no more "jargon" than the old Norse word "window" (wind-eye)

[gradus]

(110/60 so 5 mg is fine for now)

It's no more "jargon" than the old Norse word "window" (wind-eye)

...but I don't recall anyone but musicians using it until perhaps 20 years ago when I think it started to be used by entertainers of all kinds but not I think by people outside the entertainment professions. It would be diverting to hear I've got a defense gig at Inner London Sessions, how about it Cali?