Vienna Philharmonic New Year's Concert 2018

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Opera North Orchestra is Britain's Vienna Philharmonic - an opera orchestra which also plays regularly in the concert hall.

- but with more women and (to open an entirely new can of worms) black players.

[richardfinegold]

Please let’s not be too harsh on Pet, as I read it he was merely explaining some of the background and made the specific point that he was not defending outdated practises.

I don't know, in the current climate re: sexual harassment the typical approach is Boil the offender in oil first, ask questions later.
I'll grab my coat now...

[jean]

Please let’s not be too harsh on Pet, as I read it he was merely explaining some of the background and made the specific point that he was not defending outdated practises.

I'm afraid I read this as rather a justification of those outdated practices:

Most orchestras these days sound pretty much alike but the VPO does have a unique sound though listening to some of the recordings made in the 1960s with Karajan it has undergone subtle change in more recent years. It would be a great loss if the VPO became just another identikit band and it's little wonder that they guard their traditions.

[Keraulophone]

an opera orchestra which also plays regularly in the concert hall

I may be completely wrong about this, but wasn't the converse the case with the Brighton Philharmonic, which in the 1970s gave concerts in The Dome, Brighton, on Sunday afternoons but then decamped back to the Royal Opera House?

[Richard Tarleton]

The Opera North Orchestra is Britain's Vienna Philharmonic - an opera orchestra which also plays regularly in the concert hall.

The Orchestra of WNO does the same - I've heard them several times in St David's Hall - some stand-out Bruckner under their last conductor, Lothar Koenigs....

[jonfan]

- but with more women and (to open an entirely new can of worms) black players.

Well to keep with Opera North, Paul Philbert, principal timpanist, is black; and, quake in your shoes VPO, Opera North Orchestra is the finest Wagner orchestra in the world.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I may be completely wrong about this, but wasn't the converse the case with the Brighton Philharmonic, which in the 1970s gave concerts in The Dome, Brighton, on Sunday afternoons but then decamped back to the Royal Opera House?

You may be right about the '70s version, but the story I heard when I attended their concerts in the early '90s was that the orchestra was essentially made up of freelance professional players who were hired from all over the area specifically for the Sunday afternoon concerts in the Dome. Barry Wordsworth was the most frequent conductor at that time, and the leader looked quite remarkably like Irvine Arditti.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well to keep with Opera North, Paul Philbert, principal timpanist, is black;

'Twas he - and that orchestra - to whom I referred. (And he's phenomenally good, too!)

and, quake in your shoes VPO, Opera North Orchestra is the finest Wagner orchestra in the world.

- astonishingly good at the "post-Wagnerian" repertoire generally, too - Elgar, Strauss, Hansel & Gretel.

[LHC]

Well to keep with Opera North, Paul Philbert, principal timpanist, is black; and, quake in your shoes VPO, Opera North Orchestra is the finest Wagner orchestra in the world.

Unfortunately they don’t have a 50:50 gender ratio, so by your earlier criteria can’t be considered in the greatest orchestra stakes (only kidding, their recent Ring performances were very good).

[Petrushka]

Please let’s not be too harsh on Pet, as I read it he was merely explaining some of the background and made the specific point that he was not defending outdated practises.

Thank you, Alison, this is indeed the case and apologies if any wording of mine inferred any different. LHC explains better in his #131.

[Keraulophone]

Barry Wordsworth was the most frequent conductor at that time

He took over from John Carewe in 1989, who suceeded the founder (in 1925) Herbert Menges in 1972.

According to their website: 'The orchestra itself is best described as an ‘all star’ line up, in that the Brighton Philharmonic attracts players of the very highest calibre from around the country, many of whom regularly work with some of the finest orchestras in the world. We are fortunate to capture their skills, interest and love of the repertoire for our series of Sunday afternoon concerts.'

...so it's not unlikely that some of their 'stars' could have come from Covent Garden and other 'stars' living in the South East, who maybe still pop down on the Brighton Line for something to do on free Sunday afternoons. The concerts I recall most vividly both included performances of the Elgar Violin Concerto: an astonishingly assured one by a very young Nigel Kennedy and a sadly inimitable one by an elderly Yehudi Menuhin. Although John Carewe is perhaps best known for his support of contemporary British composers, the Sunday afternoon concerts at The Dome offered its matinée audience mainly conservative fare, but I am taliking about forty years ago and things may have changed.

[Once Was 4]

He wouldn't have dared: Lady Barbirolli was a distinguished player!

I forgot; Sir John appointed two female horn players when he re-built the Halle. The Principal horn was Livia Gollancx (of the publishing firm) who also played Principal horn in the BBC Northern Orchestra for while whilst the late Sydney Coulston went on the Royal Philharmonic tour to the USA in the early 50s. She then became a successful professional player in London for a while. Sadly, she told me herself that she left the Halle having fallen out with Sir John over a recording of Beethoven's 7th Symphony. Her superb 'old-English' style playing can be heard on the recording of Bax's Third Symphony which they made in, I think, 1944.

[Prommer]

Thank you, Alison, this is indeed the case and apologies if any wording of mine inferred any different. LHC explains better in his #131.

No need for apologies: comment is free, here. And we don’t need Toby Young to tell us so!

[Stanfordian]

It’s not the looks at all but who makes the sound and if they are fairly chosen. It’s hard to believe that in the 21st century so few women make the grade in the VPO. If they are appointing more women than others then it’s not obvious this year as Petroc pointed out.

Where there's a will there's a way! Other elite orchestras are able to manage to do it!

[Barbirollians]

I forgot; Sir John appointed two female horn players when he re-built the Halle. The Principal horn was Livia Gollancx (of the publishing firm) who also played Principal horn in the BBC Northern Orchestra for while whilst the late Sydney Coulston went on the Royal Philharmonic tour to the USA in the early 50s. She then became a successful professional player in London for a while. Sadly, she told me herself that she left the Halle having fallen out with Sir John over a recording of Beethoven's 7th Symphony. Her superb 'old-English' style playing can be heard on the recording of Bax's Third Symphony which they made in, I think, 1944.

Are you sure that was the symphony they fell out over ? Barbirolli never recorded the Seventh as far as I am aware . There is a live recording or two knocking around .

I see that in an interview for the Halle shown on Slipped Disc site she says she told him his approach to classical repertoire was overly romantic . He seemed to take it well but the following day suggested they should go their separate ways.