No longer Urgent!: On R3's live evening concerts

[french frank]

Nice to hear you, ff - and Chris. Yes, I did think that they portrayed you/FoR3 as being generally critical. I would have liked them to say more about the costs of live versus recorded: "about the same" is too vague. They also did not tell us if this is a flash in the pan or if live evenings will continue.

I haven't heard it yet. But, those were the two questions they chose to ask me from the ones I proposed, because they said they were interested in them: cost and whether they would continue beyond the immediate season ...

Anyway, we've had a few emails (three, actually ).

I'm a bit peeved that I came over as critical because I was clear that the major, major point was that liss'ners were delighted so far. Actually, I feared this so wrote a piece last night putting the other perspective

[johnb]

Chris,

It's important to separate the two elements of the manipulation of volume levels.

One is the engineers having to get the, say, 90+ dB dynamic range of an orchestral concert into, say, the 50 or 60 dB range of a Freeview/DAB/Satellite/iPlayer feed.

The other, which IMO is much more damaging to the music, is additional the Optimod dynamic range compression that is *always* applied to the FM feed. This mangles the relative dynamic levels and also imposes a 'glass ceiling' on the sound levels. (I can post the couple of images that I use to illustrate the effect of Optimod if anyone is interested.)

[french frank]

What do they mean, 500 members. We have 684 last time I looked.

It's the distinction between The Radio 3 Forum (members here) and FoR3 which has a specific agenda and actually has 'supporters' not members. Some forum members are registered supporters but most aren't. I've no idea how many forum members support the agenda of FoR3 and they are under no obligation to do so. The forum is provided, principally, for Radio 3 listeners - and, of course, for Proms enthusiasts if they prefer the live experience! We hope they'll find their way here when the season begins.

Draco - re the trails: Roger Bolton volunteered the fact that this was tricksy advertising, playing on the slender point that the five-live-every-nite was the new bit. That's exactly why I'm afraid that once they've extracted maximum publicity from it, the number will reduce.

But even that said - three a week would still be fine

[salymap]

Off topic but I didn't know the R4 Today programme was going to end, FF What next ??

[french frank]

Off topic but I didn't know the R4 Today programme was going to end, FF What next ??

No, I hadn't heard that either, saly. Is it?

[salymap]

No, I hadn't heard that either, saly. Is it?

Sorry I read 'To attract listeners over from R4 when the Today programme ends' in the wrong way. Panic over.

[hackneyvi]

... the cost of live concerts is about the same as the studio tape, splice and cackle arrangement that RW came up with - since it apparently saved no money do we now assume it was an ideological choice on his part to change R3 ?

I wonder if it's ideological so much as it's a typical bureacrat's initiative? One force on the schedules' construction in uncertain times may be the Controller's need to feel secure.

Live recordings are presumably tailored and so 'neater' for the scheduling. Output then becomes more controllable and, with a sense of control alone, the Controller has feelings of fulfillment and achievement? What has been achieved is an abatement of managerial anxiety and what has been fulfilled is merely personal calm but to a frightened man this will feel like enormous success.

[Frances_iom]

What has been achieved is an abatement of managerial anxiety and what has been fulfilled is merely personal calm but to a frightened man this will feel like enormous success.

Director of car parking sounds even more like his dream job - pity about the local restaurants tho.

[french frank]

Live recordings are presumably tailored and so 'neater' for the scheduling. Output then becomes more controllable and, with a sense of control alone, the Controller has feelings of fulfillment and achievement?

If I remember correctly, that was the reason given. There were several stages until in the entire schedule only the concert slot was untidy because when there was a live broadcast all concerts weren't the same length. Plus, of course, there were sometimes unforeseen delays which were inconvenient. The final stage was to prerecord all concerts, chopping them up into pieces and editing out all the unnecessary atmosphere, and the interval. Then the studio link-man tailored his script so that even the concert would always fit into the 7pm-8.45pm slot (on one occasion the first piece of the concert was actually played on the Breakfast programme that morning because there was too much music). Triumph!

Add: Also, to be fair, the argument was that if the concert began at 7pm there could be more classical music during the evening, which is what some whingey types had long been complaining about ... and CotW could be moved down from the graveyard slot to provide an extra classical programme.

[BBMmk2]

Nice to hear you, ff - and Chris. Yes, I did think that they portrayed you/FoR3 as being generally critical. I would have liked them to say more about the costs of live versus recorded: "about the same" is too vague. They also did not tell us if this is a flash in the pan or if live evenings will continue.

When was this broadcast?

[mercia]

When was this broadcast?

yesterday, Radio 4, 1:30pm, repeated Sunday 8pm, also on iPlayer (Feedback)

[french frank]

I'm not going to listen . Mark has and I've possibly been wheeled in as a mild sort of hatchet person. Hence, again, I draw attention to what I wrote before the programme went out.

Get the retaliation in first, boyo!

[antongould]

I regularly feel the hatchet and it's very mild - well done FF!

[Andrew Slater]

It sounded all right to me - not a 'hatchet person', but voicing reservations - 'is it too good to be true?' and concerns - 'does it cost more?'. The last question was (vaguely) answered. It would have been awful if there had only been unquestioning praise.

[aeolium]

If I remember correctly, that was the reason given. There were several stages until in the entire schedule only the concert slot was untidy because when there was a live broadcast all concerts weren't the same length. Plus, of course, there were sometimes unforeseen delays which were inconvenient. The final stage was to prerecord all concerts, chopping them up into pieces and editing out all the unnecessary atmosphere, and the interval. Then the studio link-man tailored his script so that even the concert would always fit into the 7pm-8.45pm slot (on one occasion the first piece of the concert was actually played on the Breakfast programme that morning because there was too much music). Triumph!

And also R3 got into the awful habit of using concert extracts for Ao3, mixing bits of different orchestral and chamber concerts into an incoherent mess.

That said, the way deferred concert broadcasting was implemented by R3 does not mean that it cannot be well done or that there are not sometimes very strong reasons for having deferred broadcasts rather than live (e.g. concerts from different time zones, seasons where there are a lot of very good concerts competing for the same slots, such as Edinburgh Festival concerts that overlap the Proms). For me, providing the integrity of the concert is retained - i.e. the whole concert broadcast as performed - then it can be every bit as impressive as a live broadcast concert.