-
-
We need BSP to unravel for us!Comment
-
It sounds like one of those situations where there are several parts which all have contributed to a final fall-out, and I have a feeling that it would be difficult to unravel who, (or even if any one person) has the main responsibility for the result. The pandemic has evidently exacerbated whatever tensions already existed. I see that several comments note there were problems with Thiagarajan's time in Scotland.Comment
-
I hadn’t realised TD’s tenure in Scotland was coming to an end. He will be difficult to replace.Comment
-
Per Alison's kind comment, I actually don't have much to offer here in the way of "unraveling" the Seattle Symphony soap opera. The Post Alley long-form piece obviously tries to dig more deeply into the dirt compared to the article in The New York Times, although by the NYT's standards, the chosen words are fairly volatile for them. Douglas McLennan, in Post Alley, feels less obliged to pull his punches, IMHO, and clearly casts Krishna Thiagarajan as the main villain in this story, like in this excerpt:
This isn't to say that DM's analysis doesn't have merit, or that he isn't necessarily wrong in choosing his particular villain in the story. But clearly DM has picked a bad guy around which to anchor his tale. If nothing else, any conductor who might want to consider herself / himself interested in being music director in Seattle might look askance at someone like Krishna Thiagarajan in the top admin job, and judge the prospect of working alongside him to be not worth being in Seattle. Again, however, this takes DM's article at face value (like his own blowing off of the situation with Jaap van Zweden set to step down from the New York Philharmonic in 2024, misspelling it as "von Zweden" in the meantime). Interestingly, however, in the response from the Seattle Symphony that challenged DM in various areas, what is interesting to see is one point where apparently the orchestra did not challenge the article: namely, in quoting Thiagarajan's apparent statement that hiring Dausgaard as music director "was a mistake". If we again assume that this is so (and again, the Seattle Symphony did not contradict this, AFAICT), then that poisons the atmosphere from the get-go. Admittedly, in some fairness, the DM Post Alley article does mention personal stresses on TD, presumably after the start of the pandemic, namely his divorce and the death of his father, which no doubt made other difficult aspects worse to deal with.'The senior staff departures hint at a culture that had quickly changed. Within a few weeks of arriving in the job, Thiagarajan was heard by several staff expressing his opinion that hiring Dausgaard – which had taken place just before Thiagarajan had arrived — was “a mistake.” He claimed the selection process by which Dausgaard had been chosen was flawed, lamented that Seattle was “a provincial town” and that he had “inherited a dumpster fire from Simon Woods” [the orchestra’s much celebrated previous executive director who had departed to take a job as CEO of the Los Angeles Philharmonic].
Where Woods had promoted a highly collaborative institutional culture, Thiagarajan took to criticizing staff in front of other staff and pitting them against one another, staff members report. He second-guessed decisions by staff, dressing them down in group meetings, and made clear that his opinions were the only ones that mattered, they say. Even as employees were quitting, they expressed, they say – in exit interviews, in meetings, in complaints to the board – that they found the workplace toxic.'
With that said, to be honest, my own impressions of Dausgaard have been mixed. I recalled posting here back in 2015 a reaction of "Huh?" when TD was announced as the next chief conductor of the BBC SSO. (I thought that Markus Stenz would have been a more obvious choice, based on what I sensed to be artistic and personal chemistry between MS and the BBC SSO from several BBC R3 relays of them. Probably too late for the BBC SSO to try for MS this time now, if they even want to.) This also ties into his situation with the BBC SSO, where, like Alison, I didn't know that TD is set the BBC SSO at the end of this season. In hindsight, there wasn't an obvious announcement from the BBC SSO about it. It was buried in this BBC SSO notice from last November (i.e. well before this recent Seattle meltdown):
The Nielsen cycle already has a missing Dausgaard with the 13 January concert, where Geoffrey Paterson stepped in and got at least one nice review for it."Thomas Dausgaard will mark his last months as Chief Conductor of the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra with a complete cycle of symphonies by his fellow Dane, Carl Nielsen. Starting on 13 January, the cycle will be performed over five concerts, culminating on 19 May with the Fourth Symphony, ‘The Inextinguishable’.
Dausgaard has been Chief Conductor since September 2016. With the orchestra he has explored the influence of folk music on composers; commissioned Scottish Inspirations, a series of new works inspired by Scotland and its culture; toured to Japan, the Salzburg Festival, and Vienna’s Musikverein; and will continue to record a survey of Bartók’s orchestral music. He will step down as Chief Conductor next summer."
That aside, I've seen TD as guest conductor with other orchestras, both in Europe and in the US, where there didn't seem to be any kind of spark between TD and the ensembles, more like a weird vibe where the connection didn't seem all quite there. From listening to several TD / BBC SSO concerts on R3 from The Proms and elsewhere over the years, the not-quite-all-thereness factor still seemed present. In fact, now that I recall, TD was supposed to be at The Proms this past summer, with the "Bartok Roots" concert, if memory serves. The idea of using another ensemble to look at earlier influences on concert hall music is an idea that TD has regularly done with the BBC SSO over the years, to give credit where credit is due. So that "Bartok Roots" program sounds very much up TD's alley, except that he didn't get to the RAH for that concert last August. One wonders.
In terms of replacing him at the BBC SSO, I'm sure that there is no lack of candidates, as hopefully the BBC SSO have kept their antennae up regarding conductors as the next guy or gal. There's an American classical music quip to the effect that "the time to look for a new music director is when you hired the last one". In other words, every orchestra needs to keep up relations with other conductors besides the current music director / chief conductor, and to look out for new talent, and to be ready when the current chief conductor's time comes up. Plus, given the pandemic (and other matters), it may not be so urgent (or possible) to hire a new chief conductor immediately, especially when the organization may not be in a position to try to pack the hall full with audiences anyway (unless there are no audience restrictions in Scotland now; I haven't done the research there).
Overall, given how things have been, TD's departure from the BBC SSO over the next few months might turn into a damp squib (hopefully not), but better that than the disaster from Seattle.Comment
-
Thanks for this thoughtful and considered analysis, blue, which I'll ponder over again later.
Probably Dausgaard's splendid discography with the Swedish CO was what attracted the BBCSSO to him initially.
Those Beethoven (Simax), Schumann and Schubert (BIS) sets are some of the best on record, and he continues to explore Brahms and now Mendelssohn with them too. There's also the new Bruckner project with the Bergen PO. Excellent - and very distinctive - 1873 3rd and 6th. So the brilliant musical talent is there alright - an Artist who really thinks things through and anew (sparky personality in interview too). I'm a huge fan.
Personally I usually enjoyed his Proms with the BBCSSO, from Bartok back to Sibelius. So he has quite a repertoire range....but the world has changed around us. Who knows what will follow for us all?Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 26-01-22, 16:46.Comment
-
Andrew Mellor would seem to agree with you, per this op-ed piece from the Classical-Music.uk page:Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
Mellor makes this interesting comment:
Whether deliberately or not, Mellor echoes Krishna Thiagarajan's phrase "dumpster fire" in describing the Seattle mess now, although while Thiagarajan attributes the current 'dumpster fire' to his predecessor Simon Woods (Thiagarajan sounds like the personality who thinks that "I never do anything wrong" and "everything that I do is correct, because I do it"), Mellor may well use the phrase not necessarily about Woods, w/o putting things in so many words."...Dausgaard [spoke] to Denmark’s equivalent of Radio 3’s In Tune last week. When he was asked what implications the mid-season resignation might have for his reputation and future career, he seemed entirely stumped, admitting after a significant silence that it was not something he had considered ‘in that way’. This is not a career strategist, still less a man well versed in political machination."
Mellor also describes Dausgaard's outlook as basically wanting to take time out and smell the flowers. Curiously, Jaap van Zweden took much the same philosophy, which again McLennan dismissed out of hand, apparently without doing any homework, where he could have found this December 2020 article from Trouw, and used Google Translator. In hindsight, that Trouw article presages by just about 9 months JvZ's announcement last September that he would be leaving the New York Philharmonic in a few years. Of course, the van Zweden situation is under much less nasty circumstances compared to Dausgaard & Seattle, as at the very least, van Zweden and NYP head honcho Deborah Borda seem to get along very well.
Perhaps over-reading between the lines of Mellor's commentary, it may not be a coincidence that after TD's divorce, his new partner is a musician in the Swedish Chamber Orchestra, where, as Mellor noted, that orchestra is the one ensemble where his tenure came to a graceful end. As oddoneout noted earlier, general pandemic stress may indeed have shredded everyone's nerves in the story.Comment
-
Would you care to match Mr Dausgaard with any current vacancies, bsp??Comment
-
Hmm, good question. I probably shouldn't, since any speculation from me is pretty worthlessOriginally posted by Alison View Post
. But it's probably a very safe bet that the one country where TD will never be a music director again is the USA, since the whole Seattle meltdown shows TD in more of a "damaged goods" situation, in a very public manner. There's actually a follow-up Post Alley article by Douglas McLennan, which is willing to dish some dirt on Dausgaard's standing with the Seattle Symphony musicians and how it apparently declined sharply during the pandemic:
The article also gives Krishna Thiagarajan one comparatively positive aspect, namely his financial acumen in apparently tackling long-standing debt and deficits. But that may be the only non-negative aspect that McLennan is willing to grant Thiagarajan. However, one aspect of McLennan's article qualifies Mellor's assessment of TD as not someone versed in political machinations, namely the part where he talks about TD methodically collecting e-mails from Thiagarajan, and presenting them to the orchestra's board of directors:
As to where TD might go next, assuming that he goes anywhere (the Mellor article would imply that TD might have second, or third, thoughts about any new leadership post), I can't imagine all that many options. I count 7 US orchestras of note looking for music directors, but again, I honestly think that TD's career prospects in the USA are pretty much toast. That leaves Europe, of course. If he wants a post in Demnark, then two openings look to be in Aalborg (hardly a step up) and the Royal Danish Orchestra (Det Kongelige Kapel) in Copenhagen. Elsewhere in the Nordic countries, the Helsinki Philharmonic is looking, as is the Bergen Philharmonic. But I've no idea if TD has any sort of past guest-conducting relationship with either ensemble. The two really big prizes on the European continent now are the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra and the Staatskapelle Dresden, but I don't think TD has ever worked with either of them."Dausgaard printed out 104 pages of emails between him and Thiagarajan and notes he had taken of their conversations. He had them compiled in binders with copies for each board member. On a Saturday in February 2020, in the offices of a nearby law firm, he tried to make his case, says one board participant. It was, he says, an emotional, even distraught presentation. The emails documented dozens of ideas and initiatives and projects the music director wanted to pursue, and it appeared he had made no progress on them. He seemed particularly incensed by the lack of responses from Thiagarajan to many of his queries. Remember too, in our previous story, we reported that staff had spoken of hearing Thiagarajan disparage the choice of Dausgaard as music director soon after arriving in the job."Comment
-
Just a few thoughts, although I am unqualified to do anything other than voice opinion I should add.
Whatever Thiagarajan's qualities might be I don't think he was the right person to manage Dausgaard, who I think lives for the music and the opportunities to share it and isn't interested in the mechanicals and politics. He seems to have been successful when guest rather than fulltime with Seattle, in which role the non-music side of things doesn't play isn't so big a part presumably. On that basis perhaps being with a smaller outfit and a more sympathetic/skilled management might be a better way forward.
In my youth I had experience of two orchestras (non-professional, one youth one adult) where the conductor was either unwilling or unable to get into the nuts and bolts of the non-musical side of the role, but was enabled to do what he did best by a team prepared to accept the difficulties and irritations for the sake of the undoubted benefits and positives.
A smaller European orchestra, if TDs personality fits, the musicians feel able to work with him, the orchestra management can handle him and the Seattle fall-out doesn't impact too much, might be a better fit for someone who just wants to make music and take the musicians along with him? It could be very rewarding for all concerned.Comment
-
Well, the BBC SSO might happily beg to differ, with their announcement (today, I guess) that Ryan Wigglesworth is to be their next chief conductor, as of the start of next season:Originally posted by Alison View Post
Obviously my speculation on re-establishing ties with Markus Stenz was wide of the mark. But the whole process here seems relatively smooth, with no transition year between chief conductors for the BBC SSO. I don't know RW's work very well, besides the occasional R3 relay, but at the risk of a back-handed compliment, he seems like a solid, safe-pair-of-hands choice (not that there's anything wrong with that, especially if he and the orchestra get along).
Back to TD: from my earlier post, the Royal Danish Orchestra is out of the running for him, as they're just announced their new chief conductor, Marie Jacquot (new name to me, and the first gal ever to get the nod, AFAICT). oddoneout's analysis sounds very spot-on to me, as to what would fit TD's personality and skill-set well for the future. Time will tell, to use a cliched phrase, and depending on what posts open up and which ensembles might be interested in him.Comment
-
I am not Mr Wigglesworth's biggest fan - the concerts I have seen him conduct with the Halle have been technically very proficient and rather soulless - I remember a Rite of Spring in particular played with extraordinary accuracy and completely lacking in excitement.Originally posted by bluestateprommer View PostWell, the BBC SSO might happily beg to differ, with their announcement (today, I guess) that Ryan Wigglesworth is to be their next chief conductor, as of the start of next season:
Obviously my speculation on re-establishing ties with Markus Stenz was wide of the mark. But the whole process here seems relatively smooth, with no transition year between chief conductors for the BBC SSO. I don't know RW's work very well, besides the occasional R3 relay, but at the risk of a back-handed compliment, he seems like a solid, safe-pair-of-hands choice (not that there's anything wrong with that, especially if he and the orchestra get along).
Back to TD: from my earlier post, the Royal Danish Orchestra is out of the running for him, as they're just announced their new chief conductor, Marie Jacquot (new name to me, and the first gal ever to get the nod, AFAICT). oddoneout's analysis sounds very spot-on to me, as to what would fit TD's personality and skill-set well for the future. Time will tell, to use a cliched phrase, and depending on what posts open up and which ensembles might be interested in him.Comment
-
One can surely understand why a conductor like Dausgaard might just wish to take some time out. I hope we see him in at least a regular guest conductor post in the UK again soon. I think he is a very fine conductor.Comment
-
Far more than a safe pair of hands, Ryan Wigglesworth is a notable composer himself and much involved with new and recent music.... with a seriously impressive CV.....
From keyboard direction of Mozart and Beethoven to Birtwistle operas. Not a bad approach to musical life, really.
This remains my favourite single issue of Birtwistle - a marvellous musical and sonic experience....
I've always enjoyed his Proms. Authoritative and inventive, wide musical sympathies.....an excellent choice for any BBC Orchestra.Comment
-
Well said. RW is surprisingly underestimated, and yes, what a CV. That HB CD is certainly my desert island HB recording.Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostFar more than a safe pair of hands, Ryan Wigglesworth is a notable composer himself and much involved with new and recent music.... with a seriously impressive CV.....
From keyboard direction of Mozart and Beethoven to Birtwistle operas. Not a bad approach to musical life, really.
This remains my favourite single issue of Birtwistle - a marvellous musical and sonic experience....
I've always enjoyed his Proms. Authoritative and inventive, wide musical sympathies.....an excellent choice for any BBC Orchestra.Comment
Comment