Mahler 8 - Runnicles, Ao3 11/06

[johnb]

Friday's Afternoon on 3 included an Edinburgh Festival performance of Mahler 8 with Runnicles conducting the BBC SSO, etc.

Does anyone know whether this is the same performance that was recently issued on the BBC Music Mag CD and that was so highly praised by many here?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Don't know the answer to your question but would be interested to know if you liked what you heard on Ao3.

I and a friend were profoundly unimpressed by what came off the BBC MM CD. Much of this may have been down to the recording, but both of us on our different systems felt the balance and dynamics were so feeble that it was difficult to make contact with the performance. It didn't even reach the level of "Clearly a decent performance - what a pity about the recording."

Presumably it was much better in the hall!

[Roehre]

Friday's Afternoon on 3 included an Edinburgh Festival performance of Mahler 8 with Runnicles conducting the BBC SSO, etc.

Does anyone know whether this is the same performance that was recently issued on the BBC Music Mag CD and that was so highly praised by many here?

I do think so, but am not sure.
Today I'll listen to the 1st movement, as it is Whitsun/Pentecost today, time for Veni Creator Spiritus therefore.

[ostuni]

I remember finding the BBC MM Runnicles decidedly underwhelming when I first heard it: the opening sounds distant and unfocussed, as if heard through a curtain. The trouble is, I bought the magazine on the same day that the live LPO/Tennstedt popped through my letterbox. A few A/B comparisons made the Tennstedt sound much more vivid, so the Runnicles went on to a hear-later pile. And there it still is...

[Petrushka]

I, too, found the BBC MM CD underwhelming for much the same reasons outlined by LMP and Ostuni. I doubt if it will get a second hearing as I have several much finer versions on my shelves.

If BBC MM wanted to issue a Mahler 8 they needn't have looked any further than a very fine performance given at the 1995 Proms by Andrew Davis and the BBCSO. For some reason Davis is being unfairly maligned on these boards on another thread but here he was absolutely in his element. With excellent soloists to boot this would have been my choice.

[Curalach]

Does anyone know whether this is the same performance that was recently issued on the BBC Music Mag CD and that was so highly praised by many here?

Yes, it is the same performance. I attended the concert which sounded well in the hall. In fact I have said before that it was the best live performance of anything that I have heard Runnicles give.
That said, and after several hearings, the recording is a pale imitation. As usual the Beeb had dozens of microphones and I guess the temptation to mix and fiddle was just too much.
I am happy to have the disc as a memento of a fine concert but would hesitate to recommend it as a library choice.

[johnb]

Thanks for the replies.

I noticed the broadcast and vaguely remembered favourable comments about the live performance but I'll give iPlayer a miss on this occasion!

By the way, ostuni, how does the Tennstedt CD compare with the DVD as far as sound quality goes? I already have the DVD and have been wondering whether it is worth getting the CD. (I ripped the sound from the DVD so I could have the option of listening without using a DVD player and noticed that, on the DVD, there was a great deal of soft clipping on all the climaxes - not that I was aware of it when listening.)

[ostuni]

I've only got the cd of Tennstedt's live performance, & never heard the DVD. It sounds pretty good: I didn't notice any clipping, but probably wasn't listening very analytically - it's the sort of performance that picks you up by the scruff of the neck and drags you along with it (in an exhilarating sort of way).

[johnb]

it's the sort of performance that picks you up by the scruff of the neck and drags you along with it (in an exhilarating sort of way).

Very much how I feel about the DVD version. The images that stick in my mind are of KT at the end of each movement. There is something very moving about his obvious deep involvement with the music and the mixture of exhaustion and satisfaction that show in his expression.

[Petrushka]

Very much how I feel about the DVD version. The images that stick in my mind are of KT at the end of each movement. There is something very moving about his obvious deep involvement with the music and the mixture of exhaustion and satisfaction that show in his expression.

I was present at the performance that is released on the CD (January 27 1991) while the DVD was culled from that performance and one the following night. Along with the live Tennstedt Mahler 2 released last year these remain the two greatest concerts I've ever attended. I had a fabulous centre stalls seat for the 8th right next to the TV camera which gives the shots of the whole stage. My head was in the clouds for weeks afterwards and I just knew that it was one of those concerts that will be talked about for years. I have the DVD and the CD is on order and should arrive this week.

[BBMmk2]

One of the worst sounding, or even played Mahler 8s I have ever heard!

[Petrushka]

One of the worst sounding, or even played Mahler 8s I have ever heard!

I hope you're not referring to the Tennstedt there, BBM!

[Peter Katin]

Yes, it is the same performance. I attended the concert which sounded well in the hall. In fact I have said before that it was the best live performance of anything that I have heard Runnicles give.
That said, and after several hearings, the recording is a pale imitation. As usual the Beeb had dozens of microphones and I guess the temptation to mix and fiddle was just too much.
I am happy to have the disc as a memento of a fine concert but would hesitate to recommend it as a library choice.

Personally I long for the time when most of the microphones are removed from the control of those who apparently don't know how to use them. I can remember giving Brahms and Rachmaninov performances in an Albert Hall with a mere two microphones.

[umslopogaas]

Peter Katin, that's a good point. The complexity of microphone set ups seems to have varied between companies. According to their LP sleeve notes, Mercury used three omnidirectional microphones for their stereo recordings and a single microphone for the monos: which is interesting, since it implies that the stereo and monos were actually separate performances, rather than just a single stereo recording issued in stereo and mono formats. Is that the case? I know you were making recordings back in the glory days of LP, I've got a couple of your Decca discs with a very youthful Peter Katin cover photo. From what I've read (Norman Lebrecht's recent Penguin), Decca favoured a more elaborate 'tree' of microphones: but then Decca was apparently a haven for technical wizards. It looks as if you can get equally good results with either approach, both Mercury and Decca have a high reputation among audiophiles.

[RobertLeDiable]

Perhaps you shouldn't be quite so hard on the poor broadcasting engineers. They usually have one rehearsal of perhaps a couple of hours to get the balance right in a public concert hall prior to a concert, with the singers probably marking and unwilling to give it the full welly. You can't compare those conditions with a Decca studio recording!