Gundula Janowitz

[teamsaint]

Just looks like a whole heap of stereo-typing.

What, the rather inadequate Wiki article ?

[Richard Tarleton]

by dint of sheer musical intelligence and Walter Legge, imv. But intellect?

Yes, intelligence is what I meant.

I do remember listening to a dispiriting ES lieder master class, where she spent practically the entire time analysing the unfortunate student's first couple of notes, or rather words. I suspect the poor girl, who from what little one could tell had a lovely voice, was ready to give up and seek another career by the end of it.

[Conchis]

Yes, intelligence is what I meant.

I do remember listening to a dispiriting ES lieder master class, where she spent practically the entire time analysing the unfortunate student's first couple of notes, or rather words. I suspect the poor girl, who from what little one could tell had a lovely voice, was ready to give up and seek another career by the end of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuU0Jn8_T0

The problem with masterclasses of this kind is that, in the case of stage roles, the singer will probably be called upon to forget everything they have learned by a stage director in order to perform in a 'high concept' production.

[Pianorak]

I do remember listening to a dispiriting ES lieder master class.

I remember one as well - although I am now wondering whether I dreamt that she said a certain phrase had to be produced "like this" - with ES miming an elephant trunk. Must have been a dream.

[Barbirollians]

Porgi Amor on the DG Bohm recording is a desert island disc - wonderful singer cannot for a moment understand Conchis's criticisms but ears are different !

[french frank]

Porgi Amor on the DG Bohm recording is a desert island disc - wonderful singer cannot for a moment understand Conchis's criticisms but ears are different !

Several versions of her singing this on Youtube. Certainly not a 'white voice' - Emma Kirkby's voice was criticised - when she started singing professionally - for being a 'white' [i.e. colourless] voice, now quite usual in early vocal music, but not at all like Janowitz.

[Richard Barrett]

now quite usual in early vocal music

Quite usual, that is, in early vocal music sung by people who came through the British church choir tradition or are strongly under its influence - early music singers from Spain or Italy, for example, have a very different approach. I can see how some might regard Gundula Janowitz's voice as colourless relative to a supposed norm among opera singers, but by the same token I would say that most opera singers have far too garish voices for my liking. I prefer to hear the pitches someone is singing than infer them from relating the accompanying harmony to an imaginary point somewhere within a wide vibrato.

[ahinton]

Quite usual, that is, in early vocal music sung by people who came through the British church choir tradition or are strongly under its influence - early music singers from Spain or Italy, for example, have a very different approach. I can see how some might regard Gundula Janowitz's voice as colourless relative to a supposed norm among opera singers, but by the same token I would say that most opera singers have far too garish voices for my liking. I prefer to hear the pitches someone is singing than infer them from relating the accompanying harmony to an imaginary point somewhere within a wide vibrato.

Very much to the point; many thanks. Would you go further and attribute this very different approach to many more singers from, say, Spain and Italy than just those who specialise in early music?

[Beef Oven!]

GJ's is beautiful to my ears, like Annie Haslam and Whitney Houston, to name two from other genres that I'm keen on. I know people have different taste, but some of the critical views expressed here are quite hard to understand. And how could we know the woman in the masterclass was ready to quit her career and look for a new one?!!!!

[french frank]

Quite usual, that is, in early vocal music sung by people who came through the British church choir tradition or are strongly under its influence - early music singers from Spain or Italy, for example, have a very different approach.

Not sure which singers/groups you're thinking of, but some tend to treat early music (vocal and instrumental) as a sort of finger-in-ear folk music. I think I'd rather have operatic vibrato - within reason, of course; though the folksy approach seems to be very popular, and may, for all I know, be very 'authentic'.

What I can't comment on is Janowitz in Wagner where the argument may be different from Janowitz in Mozart. BeefO being a Wagner affithionatho argues from a wider point of view here

[Conchis]

Janowtiz' reputation was built on her Mozart and lyrical Strauss roles. Also on the Bach cantatas.

I've always felt her a very peculiar choice for Wagner, even for the lyrical roles. I don't like her Elsa in Lohengrin any more than her other roles.

[Barbirollians]

Janowtiz' reputation was built on her Mozart and lyrical Strauss roles. Also on the Bach cantatas.

I've always felt her a very peculiar choice for Wagner, even for the lyrical roles. I don't like her Elsa in Lohengrin any more than her other roles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwTHtNmwxYE

This is the performance I was referring to . It still sounds best of all in analogue to me - not sure quite why but pretty marvellous all the same on CD .

[Richard Barrett]

I've always felt her a very peculiar choice for Wagner, even for the lyrical roles.

Peculiar: yes, unfortunately. I wish there were a lot more Wagner singing like hers. In Wagner's time there would have been.

[Richard Tarleton]

And how could we know the woman in the masterclass was ready to quit her career and look for a new one?!!!!

It was of course an ES masterclass, not a GJ one! Slight hyperbole, it's just that she was giving the poor girl such a horrible time. There are ways and ways of being a teacher!

[pastoralguy]

It was of course an ES masterclass, not a GJ one! Slight hyperbole, it's just that she was giving the poor girl such a horrible time. There are ways and ways of being a teacher!

I'm sure there was a chapter in one of Gerold Moore's books about recording a Wolf song with E.S. Her husband, Walter Legge, spent half an hour micro managing every single note in her part. At the end, he added 'don't forget to smile!' So, in an empty space on her music, she wrote 'SMILE'.