Messiaen: L'Ascension & Turangalila

[Simon B]

Although the tickets cost about twice as much (why?)

At a guess because at the Barbican the promoter is the BBC, heavily subsidising use of the venue as a recording studio + audience (often with much papering) whereas in Birmingham it is, presumably, the Birmingham International Concert Season. The finances of orchestral concerts in Birmingham are currently almost uniquely screwed among major UK cities due to the scale of funding cuts there. Though that said there is tough competition from my homeland in which St David's hall, the principal concert hall in the capital city, recently came close to being shut down completely, but that's another story.

Anyway, this Turangalila was packed with joi de vivre (after a potent and therefore inherently uncomfortable Mahler 9 last night) and a proper tonic despite consecutive nights at the Barbican being heavy going when currently working 100+ miles away and not as young as you were... Whatever they're charging for it in Brum it'll probably be worth it.

[Beef Oven!]

teamsaint/Bryn

Any chance of a summary when you get a spare moment, for those of us that couldn't go?

[Simon B]

I'll leave the more relevant musical commentary to those more erudite and articulate...

However, Bernard Haitink stood up throughout to conduct Mahler 9, but Sakari Oramo sat throughout the Messiaen concert. Hope he hasn't done his back or something - diamond geezer, the BBCSO hasn't sounded so good in 20+ years...

[Beef Oven!]

I'll leave the more relevant musical commentary to those more erudite and articulate...

However, Bernard Haitink stood up throughout to conduct Mahler 9, but Sakari Oramo sat throughout the Messiaen concert. Hope he hasn't done his back or something - diamond geezer, the BBCSO hasn't sounded so good in 20+ years...

I saw Sakari Oramo conducting the BBC Symphony in a Varèse concert two weeks ago and he stood and leapt throughout - very animated. Coincidently I was in a bad way at this concert - on crutches!

You may be right, he may have done something to his back. I don't blame myself, these things aren't catching!

I think the BBCSO have sounded great live, during the last 20 years and before!

Here's a photo from the Varèse concert two weeks ago .....

[Bryn]

... Bernard Haitink stood up throughout to conduct Mahler 9, but Sakari Oramo sat throughout the Messiaen concert. Hope he hasn't done his back or something - diamond geezer, the BBCSO hasn't sounded so good in 20+ years...

Not quite. Oramo did stand to conduct for the opening of the finale.

Once the trumpet players got their lips in, L'Ascension processed well, with a fine contribution from the Cor Anglais player. When it came to Turangalila I particularly liked the way Oramo allowed sounds that were best left to die away the time to do so. No Boulezian pushing on regardless. Thank goodness PB did not rate the work enough to conduct it.

The bass growling of the Ondes Martenot could have been a little more prominent, but that is so often the case. The clarinet solos were played with particular care regards phrasing, I thought.

As to the forthcoming Birmingham performance. I would not be at all surprised were it to be recorded for future broadcast during, say, Afternoon on 3.

[Simon B]

I was also at the evening concert part of the Varese Total Immersion day - my head has just about recovered now. It was a bit... immediate... in the stalls. I hope the musicians were using suitable hearing protection, the end of Ameriques was off the decibel scale. Perhaps Oramo is still recovering himself, hence the need to sit!

It was noticeable that the percussion reined it in a bit this evening going for colour and presence rather than an all out assault, except at a few key moments, mainly none the poorer for it...

[Beef Oven!]

Not quite. Oramo did stand to conduct for the opening of the finale.

Once the trumpet players got their lips in, L'Ascension processed well, with a fine contribution from the Cor Anglais player. When it came to Turangalila I particularly liked the way Oramo allowed sounds that were best left to die away the time to do so. No Boulezian pushing on regardless. Thank goodness PB did not rate the work enough to conduct it.

The bass growling of the Ondes Martenot could have been a little more prominent, but that is so often the case. The clarinet solos were played with particular care regards phrasing, I thought.

As to the forthcoming Birmingham performance. I would not be at all surprised were it to be recorded for future broadcast during, say, Afternoon on 3.

Thanks. I'm surprised that Oramo didn't go for a modern growling low-base Ondes Martenot.

[Beef Oven!]

I was also at the evening concert part of the Varese Total Immersion day - my head has just about recovered now. It was a bit... immediate... in the stalls. I hope the musicians were using suitable hearing protection, the end of Ameriques was off the decibel scale. Perhaps Oramo is still recovering himself, hence the need to sit!

It was noticeable that the percussion reined it in a bit this evening going for colour and presence rather than an all out assault, except at a few key moments, mainly none the poorer for it...

Yes, it was probably the loudest classical concert I've ever been to, save perhaps for a semi-pro Belshazzar some years ago!

Of course spaeking personally, it's nothing compared to Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zep, Ted Nugent or Motorhead, or even the Merzbow gig I was at last year!

[Pulcinella]

Once the trumpet players got their lips in, L'Ascension processed well, ....

That explains it; I thought that the performance took a little while to 'settle in'.
Hope you and ts enjoyed the evening.

As to the forthcoming Birmingham performance. I would not be at all surprised were it to be recorded for future broadcast during, say, Afternoon on 3.

Would such a repeat performance (albeit in a different venue) normally be recorded?

[Bryn]

... Would such a repeat performance (albeit in a different venue) normally be recorded?

Whether it is normal practice or not I cannot be sure, but take the fairly recent example of the series of performances of the SMPC completion of Bruckner's 9th by the BBCSSO/Dausgaard. First we heard the Glasgow performance, then, a few months later, the Edinburgh. The performances themselves were just three days apart.

[HighlandDougie]

Not quite. Oramo did stand to conduct for the opening of the finale.

Once the trumpet players got their lips in, L'Ascension processed well, with a fine contribution from the Cor Anglais player. When it came to Turangalila I particularly liked the way Oramo allowed sounds that were best left to die away the time to do so. No Boulezian pushing on regardless. Thank goodness PB did not rate the work enough to conduct it.

The bass growling of the Ondes Martenot could have been a little more prominent, but that is so often the case. The clarinet solos were played with particular care regards phrasing, I thought.

As to the forthcoming Birmingham performance. I would not be at all surprised were it to be recorded for future broadcast during, say, Afternoon on 3.

Well I ought to say that the highlight for me was getting to meet Bryn and ts, albeit very briefly, in the interval. Anyway, the music was almost as colourful as Bryn's very splendid tie. Sakari Oramo clearly has a problem with his back, judging from the way he came on to the stage. Not that that affected the response of the orchestra and soloists. Like Bryn, I also much liked the way Oramo allowed sounds to die away to silence. Although I suspect that Cynthia Millar and Steven Osborne could play their respective parts in their sleep (I first saw their combo in this work quite a long time ago), they both played as if it were something exciting which they had just discovered. Brass, percussion and woodwind parts (all well played in Turangalila, the brass a bit rough round the edges to start with in L'Ascension) are what stand out but the strings were also excellent. Yet another excellent concert from the BBC SO (the third I've been to in so many months). The combination of them and Sakari Oramo seems to be pretty harmonious so long may it last. Will the LSO and Haitink be as good on Sunday?

[teamsaint]

A night of firsts for me, most notably meeting up for the first time with Bryn, which was a pleasure and a musical education, as well as meeting HighlandDougie, also a great pleasure to meet, though he didn't have time for the education bit ...

First time hearing Turangalila live and first time seeing Oramo conduct. As Bryn mentioned, and as must have been clear on broadcast, the trumpets really did struggle early on in L'ascension. I bet they cursed when they saw that programme, they are so exposed , so early. It was good to hear, and worked well enough as part of the programme.

The Turangalila was a baseline performance for me, but the performance certainly brought out most of the brilliance of the score. It's hard not to be just swept along in the sheer dazzle and intricacy of the music, but why not? Oramo, who did stand during the final movement, had quite a light , hands off touch I thought. Bryn and I were in full agreement about both the Clarinet and Cor Anglais , both outstanding. The fifth movement was magnificently "Passionné, Avec Joie", and ended with one of those " I want to clap between movement" moments. Bryn wouldn't let me.....

I though the BBCSO were in good form, much better than in a rather scruffy prom ( can't remember what ATM) the last time I saw them. Still a work in progress, but they gave a fine, committed performance. The soloists were a joy to hear, and the Barbican is well set out for good views of soloists, if nothing else. The attendance was thinner than I expected from the ticket sales pages when I booked, but Turangalila got a tremendous ovation from the audience, and the performance of a great work deserved it.

And I've finally cracked a quick easy route back to Waterloo from the Barbican. Hurrah !! Let me know if you want a route plan......

[Beef Oven!]

Well I ought to say that the highlight for me was getting to meet Bryn and ts, albeit very briefly, in the interval. Anyway, the music was almost as colourful as Bryn's very splendid tie. Sakari Oramo clearly has a problem with his back, judging from the way he came on to the stage. Not that that affected the response of the orchestra and soloists. Like Bryn, I also much liked the way Oramo allowed sounds to die away to silence. Although I suspect that Cynthia Millar and Steven Osborne could play their respective parts in their sleep (I first saw their combo in this work quite a long time ago), they both played as if it were something exciting which they had just discovered. Brass, percussion and woodwind parts (all well played in Turangalila, the brass a bit rough round the edges to start with in L'Ascension) are what stand out but the strings were also excellent. Yet another excellent concert from the BBC SO (the third I've been to in so many months). The combination of them and Sakari Oramo seems to be pretty harmonious so long may it last. Will the LSO and Haitink be as good on Sunday?

EDIT: Doh! I think this was supposed to be in response to teamsaint post #27.


Glad you and Bryn had a good time, and once again I will say I'm so disappointed I couldn't come along with you guys. The Chinese food made up for some of the the disappointment! The last time I saw Turangalila, I was with Bryn and he wouldn't let clap between movements either

I'm relieved that you've finally sorted out the the simple business of getting from the Barbican to Waterloo, not least because I'll not have to listen to your whinging any more No offense intended!. I would have liked to have met HiglandDougie - inter alia to thank him for the marvelous steers he's given me on recordings, of late

I can't remember off the top of my head whether I've attended a performance of L'Ascension, but from what people are saying, once the trumpets sorted themselves out it was a good performance. My hands are tied this Friday, otherwise I would have attempted the B'ham gig. I do hope a London (or environs) performance of Turangalila comes along before to soon.

[BBMmk2]

Great that Forum members are meeting up. Especially at concerts. The BBCSO does sound on good form under Oramo but they did also under Sir Andrew Davis as well.

[Bryn]

... The bass growling of the Ondes Martenot could have been a little more prominent, but that is so often the case. ...

Now listening to it 'again' via the iPlayer. The "bass growling of the Ondes Martenot" is captured just as clearly as I like it. Much more prominent than from my seat in the hall.