Best conductors?

[Dave2002]

That's about it. Living away from the great concert venues has its disadvantages, but is outweighed by a better quality of life in other respects.

So far we have decided to stay with 30 miles of the metropolis, but when we eventually give up working for our crusts we won't have to. Sounds like you'd recommend a move away, but we're not convinced. Accsess to theatre and concerts may continue to be important for quite a while hopefully, and we've now made friends in this area.

Maybe a thread about the quality of life in areas away from cultural centres would be of interest and useful to some. Seems to work for you anyway.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So far we have decided to stay with 30 miles of the metropolis, but when we eventually give up working for our crusts we won't have to. Sounds like you'd recommend a move away, but we're not convinced. Access to theatre and concerts may continue to be important for quite a while hopefully, and we've now made friends in this area.

I wouldn't recommend anyone to move away, particularly if you are happy and settled. But there is much to be said for living away from the crowds.

[tom_960]

There were many omissions from the top twenty in the BBC MM which I found most puzzling. I wonder whether the conductors who were consulted were (a) on the whole rather young, and (b) possibly influenced by things THEY knew about some conductors which we as listeners might not know. For example I recently read some stuff about Celibidache's behaviour towards an orchestral player which saddened me.

In approximately decreasing order of the amazement which I feel, the omissions I'm referring to are Horenstein, Celibidache, Goodall, Tennstedt, Klemperer, Muti, Jochum, Runnicles, Solti, Boehm, Barenboim and Wand.

Maybe conductors fall into two categories - those whose qualities are most clear to orchestral players and fellow musicians, and those who can most successfully deliver a thrilling experience to their audiences? Plenty of examples of the latter, I guess - Stokowski, Sargent, Tennstedt etc. As for the former - well, Silvestri it would appear, but who else? I leave it to our playing members to nominate their favourites.

[Dave2002]

The mistake that Dave2002 made in his original post was that of referring to “an article about the “best” conductors”. The BBC Magazine article made no such claim. The article was entitled, “The 20 Greatest Conductors of all time, as chosen by 100 of today’s leading maestros”. Presumably, others were approached, such as Muti and Rattle, but refused to contribute.Oxford English Dictionary,

It seems that not only I made a mistake, but also the publishers/writers of the BBC MM. Mario was right about the title not being the "best" conductors, but it wasn't about the greatest either. On closer inspection it appeared to be about the conductors who provided the most inspiration for those conductors who were choosing the list. Whether this is necessarily the same as listing the best or greatest is open to question. I would expect it to be perfectly possible to have someone as an inspiration, yet not think of them as the best or greatest in any field.

[Curalach]

the undervalued Walter Weller

He's certainly not undervalued in Scotland where his appearances with the RSNO, as Conductor Emeritus, are always a highlight of the season. I have known him for nearly 40 years. The blog article by Kenneth Woods is interesting but reveals how little he knows of Walter the man. In fact he says that they have not met.
Walter is a happy family man who loves living in Vienna and loves his shnitzels and cigars. He has no interest in jet-setting and is rarely willing to conduct any orchestra he cannot reach from Vienna within one day. His wife is a highly respected artist and his son is developing a reputation as a composer. Walter is also a model railway enthusiast. He is incredibly well connected in European musical life.
He has told me that when he conducts in Geneva, Frau Furtwangler, Frau Schuricht and Frau (either Krips or Bohm, I can't recall which) always come to his concerts.
He is also the only conductor who has been Music Director (or Principal Conductor) of all three of the UK's "Royal" orchestras - RPO, RLPO and RSNO.

[Chris Newman]

If it is the most inspiring conductors we are looking at then surely it comes down to the two most influential teaching conductors the Finn, Jorma Panula, and the Russian, Ilya Musin. Googling them I come across students most of whom are household names (those that are not are presumably well known in Finland and Russia:

Jorma Panula (1930 to...) was the teacher of Atso Almila, Ricardo Chiavetta, Olari Elts, Mikko Franck, Pietari Inkinen, Hannu Lintu, Sasha Mäkilä, Susanna Mälkki, Mikk Murdvee, Sakari Oramo, Ari Rasilainen, Esa-Pekka Salonen, Jukka-Pekka Saraste, John Storgårds and Osmo Vänskä.


Ilya Musin (1904 to 1999) was the teacher and inspiration of: Rudolf Barshai, Sabrie Bekirova, Martyn Brabbins, Semyon Bychkov, Oleg Caetani, Vladislav Chernushenko, Odyssey Dimitriadi, Sian Edwards, Victor Fedotov, Valery Gergiev,Kim Ji Hoon, Mariss Jannsons, Peter Jermihov,Arnold Katz, Yakov Kreizberg, Ennio Nicotra, Vasily Petrenko, Leonid Shulman,Konstantin Simeonov, Vassily Sinaisky,Tugan Sokhiev, Andrey Tchistyakov and Yuri Temirkanov.

And of course in this country we have stalwarts like John Carewe, Sir Colin Davis and Bernard Haitink.

[Ventilhorn]

It seems that not only I made a mistake, but also the publishers/writers of the BBC MM. Mario was right about the title not being the "best" conductors, but it wasn't about the greatest either. On closer inspection it appeared to be about the conductors who provided the most inspiration for those conductors who were choosing the list. Whether this is necessarily the same as listing the best or greatest is open to question. I would expect it to be perfectly possible to have someone as an inspiration, yet not think of them as the best or greatest in any field.

A very good point, Dave.

Similar to the inspirational effect that Fanny Waterman had for aspiring pianists.

Good morning all,

Ventilhorn

[salymap]

When any thread is concerned with lists I always think of the late 'Professor' Joad, from the BBC 'Brains Trust' who prefaced any answer with "It all depends on what you mean by...."

Lists are whatever you want to make of them. On the whole IMO they can be fun but are meaningless.

[salymap]

What's the final top list then? What about a 'living' one and a 'past' one?

[RobertLeDiable]

If it is the most inspiring conductors we are looking at then surely it comes down to the two most influential teaching conductors the Finn, Jorma Panula, and the Russian, Ilya Musin

But though those two have clearly been inspiring as teachers, that doesn't mean they themselves were great or inspiring conductors.

One of Musin's pupils, Yuri Temirkanov, was certainly in inspiring form last night on R3, conducting the Philharmonia. Their performance of the Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances was truly extraordinary. And it confirmed for me that the Philharmonia is currently easily the best orchestra in the UK.

[bluestateprommer]

more on Carlos Kleiber

Bernard Haitink and Simon Rattle used to smuggle themselves in to rehearsals at Covent Garden for Otello when Kleiber was in town. On one such occasion, Haitink turned to Rattle and said: 'I think our studies in this art are only just beginning'

Here's an article from The Guardian where the quote is attributed in slightly modified from:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2004/mar/05/classicalmusicandopera1

'[Haitink] talks about conductors he admires. The list starts with Carlos Kleiber. Simon Rattle tells the story of how he and Haitink were sitting in a Covent Garden box at a closed Kleiber rehearsal of Otello. When it ended, Haitink turned to Rattle and said: "Well, I don't know about you, but I think that my studies in this art have only just begun."

"Yes, that is true," he says now. "I'm not ashamed of saying that. When I have listened to Kleiber, I always think, 'My God, he knows his scores so well.' He is a fanatic. He looks at every manuscript and he will dig out every note, every detail, every query."'

I think that last part about knowing every detail is why CK made the top of the list for most conductors in the poll, rather than his particular repertoire.

BTW, on YT, you can watch the 1st part of the recent documentary on CK, "Traces to Nowhere", here:

http://youtu.be/KJLXbR_AB6Q

I was lucky enough to see all 5 parts of it on YT before the movie makers asked the YT poster to remove the last 4 parts of the full movie, for very understandable reasons.