Best conductors?

[Dave2002]

Ah, thanks Petrushka (post 28), I'm glad someone has finally listed my favourite conductor, Sir Georg Solti. Not to all tastes, I guess, people sometimes complain that he is too hard-driven and that he concentrates too much on detail and misses the big structures, but I like his style, and he got brilliant recordings from Decca. Operas by Wagner and Richard Strauss are central of course, but he also made occasional forays into Mozart (Magic Flute) and Verdi (Falstaff, Requiem). His recordings of Bartok (Concerto for Orchestra, Dance Suite) introduced me to that composer, as did his Mahler symphonies. Not so sure about his Beethoven, I think I prefer Klemperer, but if I had to limit myself to one conductor, it would have to be Solti.

Nothing wrong with Solti, though I think he was someone who got very different results live than in recordings. His Marriage of Figaro is also v. good, and his Mahler 8 is excellent. He was also good in Elgar, both in the symphonies and in the violin concerto. I herd him live in a concert performance of Cosi fan tutte, and also in Berlioz - Romeo and Juliet. Very good performances, and I think there was another live orchestral concert which was very different from recordings.

[Chris Newman]

I like Solti in Elgar and Tippett (where he finds a real sense of beauty and soul) but found him too jagged and hard driven in Operas and Mahler. Having said that I really enjoyed hearing half a Ring live. When it came to Verdi I much preferred ROH nights when Ted Downes, Giulini or Mackerras were in charge. I heard him conduct Yevgeny Onegin and a few months later Roger Norrington conducted the same work for Kent Opera with a less starry cast but much more soul.

I wanted to include Ted Downes and Gennadi Rosdhestvensky in Message 30 but numerically it would not work.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I do like Solti's Wagner, but I agree he's not the greatest of Tchaikovsky interpreters. I've never warmed to his Elgar, though his "Cockaigne Overture" is, I think, among the best available.

[Dave2002]

Chris

Re msg 30 I'm trying to figure out ten or so (how about a dozen - baker's?) conductors who have influenced my taste. I may have to adjust this ....

John Pritchard
Barbirolli
Klemperer
Walter
Colin Davis
Boult
Haitink
Solti
Gergiev
Previn
Bernstein
Sargent
Rattle

I heard all apart from Walter and Klemperer live - though I'm a bit hazy about Previn - think it was with Mutter a few years ago.

Filling in another baker's dozen (+ = 15!) I'd have to add

Furtwangler
Celibidache
Szell
Beecham
Boehm
Krips
Erich Kleiber
Toscanini
Schmidt-Isserstedt
Christopher Hogwood
Trevor Pinnock
Norrington
Ormandy
Marriner
Giulini

Of these I think I only heard Marriner and Pinnock live, and in the latter case it was as a harpsichordist rather than conductor.

If I carry on I might also be forced to add in Ashkenazy and Berglund, and admit to at least having Carlos Kleiber's recording of Beethoven 5 and 7, though that reminds me that I also enjoyed Andre Cluytens.

PS: Shock horror. Missed off Mravinsky - should have been high up, though I never heard him live.

[Ferretfancy]

Looking from a slightly different angle, what conductors introduced me to the most repertory? Top of that list would be Ansermet, a conductor who is due for reappraisal. I got to know a great deal of music during his immensely prolific days with Decca. Then there was Boult, not just in English music, but in Brahms and Tchaikovsky ( Suite No. 3 anybody ? ) Monteux and Kertesz brought me wonderful stuff, some of which has not been surpassed, and I was able to see them and Sir Adrian at live concerts as well.
Others have already listed Klemperer and Karajan, both great in the concert hall, and I would not want to leave Barbirolli out either.

My great regret is not having seen Beecham. Sometimes I have a vague memory that I did, there was no reason not to have done, but I think it's just my imagination playing tricks.

[salymap]

I am glad that Dave2002 has mentioned Malcolm Sargent forthe first time in these lists. I went to many of his rehearsals and concerts,along with other conductors, over his last twenty years.Sargent got abad press from orchestral players for a thoughtless speech he made in the 1930s. Soloists, on the other hand, admired his professionalism and often asked for him for their concerto recordings. Schnabel and many others admired the collaboration he gave tothem. In his BBCyears and earlier he gave many performances of new works. Becausehe had a life outside music he was criticised. Beecham knew he was a save pair of hands and he had a part in the forming of the LPO and later RPO. Not the greatest but a better conductor than legend has it.

[Dave2002]

Ferret

My regret is not having heard Karajan live, even though he hasn't been one of my favourites. I should have tried harder to see Giulini too, and even Horenstein. I missed Celibidache, though perhaps I could have got a ticket from a ticket tout. However I did see Monteux. Like you I regret not having seen Beecham, but i think I was a tad too young to have made that easy. I also missed Fricsay off the earlier lists.

[Roehre]

This is one of those meaningless lists that magazines publish. By what criteria can one judge the 'best' conductor? 'Favourite', yes, but not 'best.' And it of course only refers to those in the era of recorded music. Mahler, anyone, or Mendelssohn? It's a bit like those polls of sports fans whose memories only go back about 10 years.

To illustrate this point: and where is Mengelberg (wide repertoire, not many post-1941 recordings however)

[Chris Newman]

My initial list was of conductors I often heard live though I stuck to ten in all. Of course I would want to include Barbirolli, Klemperer and Previn in any such list as I was lucky enough to hear them often. I love Beecham in most things but never saw him conduct (though his 1920s "Rite of Spring" sounds as if it wandered in from a Hoffnung concert). Monteux and Ansermet were early loves from recordings but I never saw them live unless televison counts.

Maybe these following topics should be new threads. I would be interested to know which are

(1)the living conductors whom people rate:
(2)the conductors in the ascendant
(3)the dark horses that just miss the full limelight


Here are my top lists which could grow as I am reminded of omissions:

Claudio Abbado
Semyon Bychkov
Sir Colin Davis
Sir Mark Elder
Ivan Fischer
Edward Gardner
Bernard Haitink
Mariss Jansons
Giandrea Noseda
Antonio Pappano
Vasily Petrenko
Sir Simon Rattle
Esa-Pekka Salonen
Jan Pascal Tortelier

And rapidly in the ascendant:

Lionel Bringier
Gustavo Dudamel
Jakub Hrusa
Pietari Inkinen
Andris Nelsons
Robin Ticciati

Dark horses:

Martyn Brabbins
Jiri Kut
David Zinman

[Petrushka]

Looking from a slightly different angle, what conductors introduced me to the most repertory?

For me this would unquestionably be Bernard Haitink with Solti as runner-up. The extraordinary breadth of Haitink's repertoire is not really reflected in his recordings where he seems to be largely typecast as a Mahler/Bruckner specialist and it's been a tad disappointing to see him re-record so much of his familiar repertoire recently. I would give much to have Mozart and Haydn symphonies from him (there's only a Mozart 'Prague' as far as I know) as well as more modern music. He conducted the Lutoslawski 4th with the BPO earlier this year for example. Interesting to note that he will be conducting the Sibelius Violin Concerto next season with the BPO as he has steered clear of the Scandinavians throughout his career.

[salymap]

I queued for Toscanini tickets outside the new RFH in Festival Year, 1951. The tickets ran out just before I reached the front and I didn't see him. I regret that.

Beecham was music personified. i loved his rehearsals and concerts, the former were usually 'bitty' as he liked leaving long stretches of a work for the actual concert as he knew his players.

[Roehre]

For me this would unquestionably be Bernard Haitink with Solti as runner-up. The extraordinary breadth of Haitink's repertoire is not really reflected in his recordings where he seems to be largely typecast as a Mahler/Bruckner specialist and it's been a tad disappointing to see him re-record so much of his familiar repertoire recently. I would give much to have Mozart and Haydn symphonies from him (there's only a Mozart 'Prague' as far as I know) as well as more modern music. He conducted the Lutoslawski 4th with the BPO earlier this year for example. ....

Seconded

[Ventilhorn]

My initial list was of conductors I often heard live though I stuck to ten in all.
Here are my top lists which could grow as I am reminded of omissions:

Claudio Abbado
Semyon Bychkov
Sir Colin Davis
Sir Mark Elder
Ivan Fischer
Edward Gardner
Bernard Haitink
Mariss Jansons
Giandrea Noseda
Antonio Pappano
Vasily Petrenko
Sir Simon Rattle
Esa-Pekka Salonen
Jan Pascal Tortelier

Aren't you forgetting someone, Chris?
There cannot be many contributors to these boards who have seen and heard as much of Constantin Silvestri as you have.

Not only a great interpreter, but a champion of neglected composers and a superb trainer. He turned the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra from a 'provincial band' into an orchestra of international reputation**. His recordings and performances of Elgar (especially Alassio) are as good as you will hear and he left behind him a legacy of excellence which survives to this day.

** It is only right to accord Sir Simon Rattle with the same achievement with the CBSO, which was a total shambles when he took it over.

VH

[Chris Newman]

Aren't you forgetting someone, Chris?
There cannot be many contributors to these boards who have seen and heard as much of Constantin Silvestri as you have.

I am indeed, Ventilhorn. I said I would need some reminders. Though I did include Constantin Silvestri in my initial list of 10 in Message 30. He got lost on the way to this thread. I was listening to his recording of Capriccio Italien the other day. Apart from the tremendously exciting performance the recording is astonishing (far better than the rather congested 1812 Overture). Like the Alassio recording there is a clean and wide spread of instruments without today's ugly spot miking effects. In this Tchaikovsky even the percussion have their positions in a spectrum rather than somewhere vaguely at the back to the left.

[Prommer]

The theme that Carlos Kleiber was the conductor most admired by other conductors is not new. Bernard Haitink and Simon Rattle used to smuggle themselves in to rehearsals at Covent Garden for Otello when Kleiber was in town. On one such occasion, Haitink turned to Rattle and said: 'I think our studies in this art are only just beginning'