New Year's Day Concert 2017 VPO/Dudamel

[Prommer]

Not sure my pop analogy was right, but here goes...

These pieces are so rhythmically precise that, perversely, any slight variation is noticeable. This is a clear paradox. It is also why this music (so slight and ephemeral in many ways) is susceptible to significant interpretation.

Kleiber was thus of the view that it is music more difficult to conduct than many much longer pieces in the repertory.

[Richard Barrett]

These pieces are so rhythmically precise that, perversely, any slight variation is noticeable. This is a clear paradox.

I wouldn't find that in the least paradoxical, it's a very familiar phenomenon to anyone who has dealings with highly intricate rhythmic notation. But given that the precision of for example Viennese waltz rhythm isn't something that's notated, being instead communicated through something like an oral tradition ("you play it like this"), and given that this tradition is very much part of the musical identity of this particular orchestra (as opposed to others which aren't focused on this repertoire to the same extent), what I'm wondering is how much specific influence different conductors can have. It struck me while watching today that they could manage very well without a conductor at all (as indeed was the original case in this music when the orchestra would be led by the concertmaster). Maybe this lies behind Kleiber's statement! While the music is rhythmically very specific, as you say, it isn't very complex in terms of things like form and orchestration.

[Tetrachord]

Just catching up with the concert after a busy day.

Wow, the old magic is back at last! Just that extra degree of finesse, of light and shade, of pleasure in orchestral balance and timbre. Such a pleasing platform manner from the Dude too.

Still only half way through, the programme has come up very fresh so far. Lovely to hear the Skaters Waltz and Pique Dame.

Will catch up with the rest tomorrow. Full marks.

Beautifully expressed. Wholeheartedly agree. Thank you!!

[Tetrachord]

Not sure my pop analogy was right, but here goes...

These pieces are so rhythmically precise that, perversely, any slight variation is noticeable. This is a clear paradox. It is also why this music (so slight and ephemeral in many ways) is susceptible to significant interpretation.

Kleiber was thus of the view that it is music more difficult to conduct than many much longer pieces in the repertory.

His own father, Erich Kleiber, cautioned Carlos, "do not attempt to conduct a waltz; this just isn't possible"!!

[Tetrachord]

I wouldn't find that in the least paradoxical, it's a very familiar phenomenon to anyone who has dealings with highly intricate rhythmic notation. But given that the precision of for example Viennese waltz rhythm isn't something that's notated, being instead communicated through something like an oral tradition ("you play it like this"), and given that this tradition is very much part of the musical identity of this particular orchestra (as opposed to others which aren't focused on this repertoire to the same extent), what I'm wondering is how much specific influence different conductors can have. It struck me while watching today that they could manage very well without a conductor at all (as indeed was the original case in this music when the orchestra would be led by the concertmaster). Maybe this lies behind Kleiber's statement! While the music is rhythmically very specific, as you say, it isn't very complex in terms of things like form and orchestration.

I remember a comment by Manfred Honeck in "Traces to Nowhere" (about Carlos Kleiber) that Kleiber understood the inherent melancholy and joy contained in Viennese music better than almost anyone else, as did his father. And it's important to realize that when the conductor steps onto the podium most of his work is already done.

[pastoralguy]

Can we not get past the socialist reflex?

I was simply wondering. I wasn't suggesting that the audience members be stripped of their assets in order that they be distributed amongst the proletariat.

[Prommer]

I was simply wondering. I wasn't suggesting that the audience members be stripped of their assets in order that they be distributed amongst the proletariat.

I am glad to hear it, but perhaps I was myself guilty of a reflexive response...

[pastoralguy]

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I've been lucky enough to go to concerts in New York, London, Paris and Berlin and it always strikes me that the New Year's Day Concert is the most glamorous audience I've ever seen. Most audiences are a mixture of those who have chosen to dress up and others for whom it's a much more relaxed affair but, obviously, this is a world class event so going in jeans would be frowned upon.

[Alison]

It was world class yesterday. Grateful thanks to the Dude and the VPO for restoring my faith in this event!

[Hornspieler]

A 1st class performance presided over by a conductor who knows instinctively how this annual feast of music and rejoicing should be done.

I was so pleased to hear music from composers other than the Strauss family (I could do without the ballet - they are a distraction from the music, IMHO)

HS

[AmpH]

CD should be available from 9 January.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Sony/88985376152

DVD / Blu Ray slated for release later in the month

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I was simply wondering. I wasn't suggesting that the audience members be stripped of their assets in order that they be distributed amongst the proletariat.

I might go as far as to suggest they be stripped of their mobile phones during the performance.

[Petrushka]

A 1st class performance presided over by a conductor who knows instinctively how this annual feast of music and rejoicing should be done.

I was so pleased to hear music from composers other than the Strauss family (I could do without the ballet - they are a distraction from the music, IMHO)

Agreed in all respects. I'd particularly like to hear more of Ziehrer's music which has popped up occasionally at this event: Boskovsky included his beautiful waltz Faschingskinder as long ago as 1976.

[Alison]

Lovely to hear a fresh programme that hardly relied at all on the 'same old' pieces.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... the New Year's Day Concert is the most glamorous audience I've ever seen.

One way to describe it, I suppose! But describing comments on the ostentatious display of wealth (some of it so flamboyant that even Liberace would have said "Ooh, steady on!") as "socialist" is a thorough and complete misunderstanding of socialism.

It was the use of "worth" in your original comment that raised my eyebrows, pasto.