Bruckner 9; BBCSSO/Dausgaard

[Bryn]

Blocks of sound, innit?

[ahinton]

Blocks of sound, innit?

Really? I'd never have guessed such an arcane(sorry!) association, especially in the present context, particularly given whose work it was that PB notoriously accused of being "third pressing Mahler"!...

[Bryn]

Really? I'd never have guessed such an arcane(sorry!) association, especially in the present context, particularly given whose work it was that PB notoriously accused of being "third pressing Mahler"!...

It was the vacuity of PB's DSCH quip which set me thinking of a similar association he might have baulked at, even though it was of similar tenuity. He might as well have cited Stravinsky as third press Tchaikovsky, though perhaps with somewhat more substance.

[ahinton]

It was the vacuity of PB's DSCH quip which set me thinking of a similar association he might have baulked at, even though it was of similar tenuity. He might as well have cited Stravinsky as third press Tchaikovsky, though perhaps with somewhat more substance.

OK - understood now! Yes, PB might indeed have done what you say but, sadly, he didn't! (and, of course, the conductorial attention that he gave to our egregious Igor would rather have undermined any such statement had he ever been minded to make it!)...

[Bryn]

O.k., so we had the Glasgow performance on October 3rd last. Now, last Friday, we had the Edinburgh. I have temporarily lost track of the recording I saved of the Glasgow but I have a feeling Dausgaard speeded up his tempi by the time of the Edinburgh performance. They do the whole 4 movements in less than 70 minutes. Anyone else listen to this high ambient level recording on Ao3?

[BBMmk2]

Ferney, must've been something rather special that performance1 I will listen to that sometime this week. I have the Berliners and Rattle, doing the whole gamut but was not convinced by the Finale. It didn't seem to work for me, really, but will have a listen definetely soon.

[ahinton]

O.k., so we had the Glasgow performance on October 3rd last. Now, last Friday, we had the Edinburgh. I have temporarily lost track of the recording I saved of the Glasgow but I have a feeling Dausgaard speeded up his tempi by the time of the Edinburgh performance. They do the whole 4 movements in less than 70 minutes. Anyone else listen to this high ambient level recording on Ao3?

I've not heard it, but under 70 minutes? That sounds more like an Olympic race than Bruckner's final symphonic utterance!

[Cockney Sparrow]

Just in case the uninitiated come across this thread, I presume PB is referring to P Boulez? If I haven't made the correct connection, after a minute's thought (and dammit names are beginning to elude me, although not, of course, titans like P.Boulez) feel free to correct me.

[Bryn]

I've not heard it, but under 70 minutes? That sounds more like an Olympic race than Bruckner's final symphonic utterance!

An earlier message in this thread reported the Glasgow performance as taking around 71 minutes, I guess that falls with 'margin of error' territory when breaks between movements and whether applause is included are taken into consideration. Do give it a listen. I prefer it to Rattle's performances of the edition I have heard.

[ahinton]

Just in case the uninitiated come across this thread, I presume PB is referring to P Boulez? If I haven't made the correct connection, after a minute's thought (and dammit names are beginning to elude me, although not, of course, titans like P.Boulez) feel free to correct me.

Yes, PB = Pierre Boulez in this context.

[ahinton]

An earlier message in this thread reported the Glasgow performance as taking around 71 minutes, I guess that falls with 'margin of error' territory when breaks between movements and whether applause it taken into consideration. Do give it a listen. I prefer it to Rattle's performances of the edition I have heard.

I'll try to do that, then. That said, the comprehensive list at https://www.abruckner.com/discograph...nyno9indmino2/ shows an average of around an hour for the various recorded three movement versions and of well over 20 minutes for the finale versions, so "less than 70 minutes" for the whole does seem incredibly fast-paced.

[P. G. Tipps]

O.k., so we had the Glasgow performance on October 3rd last. Now, last Friday, we had the Edinburgh. I have temporarily lost track of the recording I saved of the Glasgow but I have a feeling Dausgaard speeded up his tempi by the time of the Edinburgh performance. They do the whole 4 movements in less than 70 minutes. Anyone else listen to this high ambient level recording on Ao3?

I didn't hear Dausgaard/BBC SSO in this work, unfortunately. However, I agree entirely with the conductor's comments regarding it.

When I first heard Bruckner's sketches for the Finale I was bowled over by just how futuristic and exciting these sounded. Extraordinary, especially for a very sick and elderly late 19th Century composer. That convinced me that this music must be heard in the concert hall and the only way realistic way to achieve that was through a 'completion' whatever one thought of the completion itself. I'm now beginning to come around to ahinton's view of being 'short-changed' if only hearing three movements, not that I no longer believe these are perfectly capable standing on their own, but simply because I'm denied that wonderfully eerie-like opening of the Finale and what we already know follows ... at least up to that frustratingly absent coda.

I could never describe the Ninth as my 'favourite' symphony by Bruckner ... it is just too heart-rending for that description ... but I have little doubt he reserved his very 'greatest' music till the last. I hope BBC repeat this concert on R3 very soon. It does appear to be somewhat fast but I'm all for conductors taking risks and providing something fresh!

[jayne lee wilson]

I'll try to do that, then. That said, the comprehensive list at https://www.abruckner.com/discograph...nyno9indmino2/ shows an average of around an hour for the various recorded three movement versions and of well over 20 minutes for the finale versions, so "less than 70 minutes" for the whole does seem incredibly fast-paced.

Venzago takes 51' for the first three, which makes it a shame that he never yet gave us his promised disc of a finale completion plus the raw sketches. They weren't included in the boxset of his cycle either.
Akira Naito in Tokyo brings the Carragan completion home in 77'13, but I know little about this recording..

https://www.abruckner.com/recordings/Delta+Classics+DCCA-0032Symphony+No.+9+in+D+Minor/notestest.htm

I wish I had the time to look at this thoroughly, as there are now several viable completions from Carragan, "SPMC", and of course Gerd Schaller's recently released own, as Bryn mentioned (which Berky was very positive about).
Qobuz HiFi offers the Josephson one with Aarhus SO/Gibbons, and many recordings get fairly welcoming reviews....where does one start? To play all of these complete would take some time....and there's my own unshiftable problem of wrecking familiarity with the first 3 movements, because the Klemperer/NPO was an early LP purchase. Played it to emotional death, really. Perhaps one day, if I keep away even longer....

But I'll try this Dausgaard one I hope.... (in medias res accounts and tax return due end-of-month...). I had very mixed feelings about his Swedish CO 1877 Bruckner 2, clean, clipped and vibrato free, but taken at quite a moderate pace and as RC said, lacking much warmth or passion. Very straight... (still very involved here with YNS and Andreae in 2 and 6).

There are a few press reviews of this Dausgaard 9th, all rather mixed... so, google it.

(don't forget the excellent Gijs van der Meijden essay Al Hinton linked to a few weeks ago...
https://www.abruckner.com/Data/artic...brucknerix.pdf)