Bruckner 9; BBCSSO/Dausgaard

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  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
    Gone fishin'
    • Sep 2011
    • 30163

    Bruckner 9; BBCSSO/Dausgaard

    Declining the invitation to join the river boat today has meant that I've been able to catch up with a broadcast of which I heard only the last half-hour or so when I was travelling at the beginning of this month. I'd quickly identified the Music I was hearing as from the Third Movement of Bruckner's Ninth - and would have switched off (not wanting just to hear the last quarter-hour or so) if it hadn't been for the brisker-than-I'm-used-to tempo. Taken att this "lick", I found it fascinating, and found myself thinking that this would be the sort of tempo needed if a Finale was "added" - and, sure enough, there was no applause at the end of the movement; instead the Finale began.

    ahinton has regularly spoken for the need of the completed edition of the Finale (600 bars of pure Bruckner together with a "likely" Coda) to be included in performances of the Bruckner #9 - I had never been convinced, despite revelling in the Music of the Finale; I could always "hear the join", if you will. This performance, by the BBC Scottish SO conducted by Thomas Dausgaard, swept away my doubts and finale convinced me. I've been meaning to listen to the whole performance, but today has been the first opportunity that I've remembered to do so:

    Penny Gore with music by Helen Grime, Bruckner, Robert White, Walton, Berners and Arnold.


    It's not a "flawless" performance (although the quality for a genuinely Live performance is astonishingly good) and the speeds may seem "too fast" compared with those adopted for the traditional "Slow Movement Finale" - even so, Dausgaard realizes the sense of accumulation and inexorability in the Third Movement whilst also creating a sense of momentum that propels the Music into the Fourth Movement. An astonishing achievement from everybody (performers and editors) concerned, and one I urge enthusiasts of this work to hear - with my very sincere apologies for having left this until there's only three days availability left.

    I hope Dausgaard and the orchestra record their performance: with the miniscule errors ironed out in the studio, this should be a world-beater.

    EDIT: Starts just after the 15min mark (ignore the "markers" on the site!) and ends about seventy-one minutes later. Introduced by Penny Gore, who doesn't tell us which "team of scholars and composers" edited the Finale, the little tease!
    Last edited by ferneyhoughgeliebte; 30-10-16, 14:26.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
  • richardfinegold
    Full Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 7737

    #2
    Nice review. I like the Conductor but for some reason would have trouble imaging a good B-9 from him

    Comment

    • ahinton
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 16123

      #3
      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
      ahinton has regularly spoken for the need of the completed edition of the Finale (600 bars of pure Bruckner together with a "likely" Coda) to be included in performances of the Bruckner #9 - I had never been convinced, despite revelling in the Music of the Finale; I could always "hear the join", if you will. This performance, by the BBC Scottish SO conducted by Thomas Dausgaard, swept away my doubts and finale convinced me. I've been meaning to listen to the whole performance, but today has been the first opportunity that I've remembered to do so:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07xhlrx
      Well, I've done so because Bruckner obviously always intended the work to be a four movement symphony and every time that I've listened to it in its three movement form I've always felt gravely short-changed, despite so many people having convinced themselves that it's somehow complete in itself like that, ending in a sublime E major after all the trials and tribulations through which that third movement has gone before arriving there. The most recent SPCM completion isn't perfect - what other than the entire finale completed by Bruckner himself could be - but it's been compiled on the basis of far more music in Bruckner's own hand than was once thought to exist. Yes, Bruckner's own Coda is most frustratingly missing and, despite discovery of more and more pages of the composer's own work on the movement over the years, that vital section was almost certainly not even begun by him, still less composed other than in his own head - but this version is probably about as good as it's likely to get until and unless a page or two more from the composer himself is discovered (if ever it is), so better this than no finale at all!

      OK, I'll now dismount from my hobby-horse!...
      Last edited by ahinton; 31-10-16, 05:30.

      Comment

      • Flay
        Full Member
        • Mar 2007
        • 5795

        #4
        Thanks for the prompt, ferney. I probably heard much the same as you and had meant to listen again properly. I was astonished by the speed, and pleasantly surprised by the finale.

        However another event 2 weeks ago - my daughter's wedding - seemed just a little more important
        Pacta sunt servanda !!!

        Comment

        • Richard Barrett
          Guest
          • Jan 2016
          • 6259

          #5
          Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
          I hope Dausgaard and the orchestra record their performance: with the miniscule errors ironed out in the studio, this should be a world-beater.
          High praise indeed, I look forward to hearing that if it comes out. I was briefly convinced by Rattle's recording of the "complete" work but went off it again. I think the finale just doesn't measure up to the rest of the work for me (not unlike that of another 9th symphony I could name) so maybe the problem I have is with Bruckner rather than with his completers.

          Comment

          • antongould
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 8831

            #6
            Originally posted by Flay View Post
            Thanks for the prompt, ferney. I probably heard much the same as you and had meant to listen again properly. I was astonished by the speed, and pleasantly surprised by the finale.

            However another event 2 weeks ago - my daughter's wedding - seemed just a little more important
            Many congratulations Flay I am sure your speech was better than any AB Finale complete or incomplete .....

            Comment

            • ahinton
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 16123

              #7
              Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
              High praise indeed, I look forward to hearing that if it comes out. I was briefly convinced by Rattle's recording of the "complete" work but went off it again. I think the finale just doesn't measure up to the rest of the work for me (not unlike that of another 9th symphony I could name) so maybe the problem I have is with Bruckner rather than with his completers.
              Impossible to say for sure, really - although I'm with you on that other Ninth finale if I'm guessing you correctly (and for sure it's not Mahler's!)...

              Comment

              • Flay
                Full Member
                • Mar 2007
                • 5795

                #8
                Originally posted by antongould View Post
                Many congratulations Flay I am sure your speech was better than any AB Finale complete or incomplete .....
                Oh I couldn't say, but many seemed to appreciate it

                Isn't it strange that in the same month we get perhaps the fastest performance of the 9th that I have ever heard, and the most sluggish from Haitink and the Lucern Festival Orchestra?

                I felt that the latter was a great disappointment, especially when compared to Abbado's performance with the same orchestra.
                Pacta sunt servanda !!!

                Comment

                • Petrushka
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 12308

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Flay View Post
                  Oh I couldn't say, but many seemed to appreciate it

                  Isn't it strange that in the same month we get perhaps the fastest performance of the 9th that I have ever heard, and the most sluggish from Haitink and the Lucern Festival Orchestra?

                  I felt that the latter was a great disappointment, especially when compared to Abbado's performance with the same orchestra.
                  The Haitink performance was the 8th not the 9th.
                  "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                  Comment

                  • Bryn
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 24688

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                    The Haitink performance was the 8th not the 9th.
                    Ah, they're all pretty much the same, innit? Boulez could not tell the 5th from the 8th, or so he once claimed.

                    Comment

                    • ahinton
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 16123

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                      Ah, they're all pretty much the same, innit? Boulez could not tell the 5th from the 8th, or so he once claimed.
                      Presumably that was before he conducted the latter.

                      I wonder whose work PB might have described as "third pressing Bruckner"...

                      Comment

                      • Bryn
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 24688

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ahinton View Post
                        Presumably that was before he conducted the latter.

                        I wonder whose work PB might have described as "third pressing Bruckner"...
                        Varèse? Not a composer I think Boulez's showed the greatest sympathy with in terms of the performances he directed.

                        Come to think of it, what he conducted was pretty much "third pressing Bruckner", i.e. the Haas edition.
                        Last edited by Bryn; 31-10-16, 12:42.

                        Comment

                        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                          Gone fishin'
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 30163

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Flay View Post
                          Isn't it strange that in the same month we get perhaps the fastest performance of the 9th that I have ever heard, and the most sluggish from Haitink and the Lucern Festival Orchestra?
                          - I knew that you were referring to the Haitink Eighth . I deleted a passage from my OP making a similar comment about how - for me - the two performances summed up how the older way of conducting Bruckner has nothing left to "say" about the Music, whereas younger conductors (at least two of them "younger" than myself - just!) make the Music sound refreshed, vigorous, and vital.
                          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                          Comment

                          • Flay
                            Full Member
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 5795

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                            for me - the two performances summed up how the older way of conducting Bruckner has nothing left to "say" about the Music, whereas younger conductors (at least two of them "younger" than myself - just!) make the Music sound refreshed, vigorous, and vital.
                            Silly me.

                            Good points, ferney
                            Pacta sunt servanda !!!

                            Comment

                            • ahinton
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 16123

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                              Varèse? Not a composer I think Boulez's showed the greatest sympathy with in terms of the performances he directed.
                              Varèse? Quoi?

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