Originally posted by Roehre
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A dull composer?
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Roehre
Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View PostWould this be bars 44 - 46 of the Brahms 2 finale and bars 18-20 of Mahler 1 first movement? Or is there another one? There is indeed a significant relationship here.
In my Dover score of the Brahms symphonies the bars 234-239 of Finale 2 (p.149) are the ones IMO quoted in Mahler 1 1st mvt, Philharmonia study score at fig.1, bars 18-21 (p.4), with an obvious foreshadow earlier at bars 7 and 8 (p.3).
[btw, a bit off-topic, well: off-composer then :) , but Finale Mahler 1, fig.6, bars 54-62 "Energisch", (especially the trumpet-part b.54-58, strings b.58-62) is quoted in Mahler IX 1st mvt IMO]
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Originally posted by Roehre View PostAlpensinfonie, for some reason I cannot relate your bar-numbers with my scores.
In my Dover score of the Brahms symphonies the bars 234-239 of Finale 2 (p.149) are the ones IMO quoted in Mahler 1 1st mvt, Philharmonia study score at fig.1, bars 18-21 (p.4), with an obvious foreshadow earlier at bars 7 and 8 (p.3).
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Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View PostMy Brahms reference is really the same as your later one, but rhythmically altered.
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Ventilhorn
Originally posted by ostuni View PostAnd my scores are also the same editions! There's a crucial difference, though with that earlier (bars 44-46) Brahms extract. The Mahler theme consists of 4 notes, with intervals falling perf 4th, rising semitone, falling perf 4th; this is the same as Brahms 234-9. In bars 44-6, the central interval is a rising tone which actually makes quite a big difference, I think.
The important question is "Does it matter, if one enjoys the result from listening to either?"
Roll on the Proms, when message boarders will (I hope) begin to talk about PERFORMANCE rather than research.
VH
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Roehre
Originally posted by Ventilhorn View PostRoll on the Proms, when message boarders will (I hope) begin to talk about PERFORMANCE rather than research.
VH
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amateur51
Originally posted by Ventilhorn View PostThere are only so many different combinations of notes and duplication of sequences is bound to occur (consider The falling sevenths in Elgar's Enigma theme for instance) Why should Mahler have "borrowed" from Brahms or vice versa?
The important question is "Does it matter, if one enjoys the result from listening to either?"
Roll on the Proms, when message boarders will (I hope) begin to talk about PERFORMANCE rather than research.
VH
Welcome back, tiger!
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Originally posted by Suffolkcoastal View Post...and we were of course talking about performing Brahms to start with too and conductors seeming inability to interpret what is in the score in front of them.It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
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Roehre
Originally posted by french frank View PostNo problem with conductors - I've just ventured £5.99 on a CD of the string quintets. After one play, I look forward to knowing them better. (I like the easy 'completist' exercise here - No 1 of 1882 a sunny piece, No 2 of 1890 more reflective).
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amateur51
Originally posted by Ventilhorn View Post? Explain, please. Who is this gentleman to whom you are referring? This name is certainly not on the list of members.
Ventilhorn.
"But please, Herr Ventilhorn, who has said that the person in question is a gentleman? Not Poirot" he pouted, and turning to Hastings 'that is certain, eh mon ami?'
Poirot appeared agitated, tapping his hand lightly against his temple, murmuring about 'the little grey cells'.
Suddenly he span round and pointed at Ventilhorn "But you know, Herr Ventilhorn! You know it is a gentleman because ... it is YOU! "
Salymap gave a little scream, Ventilhorn blenched.
"Or should I call you Herr Hornspieler?" said Poirot, his eyes ablaze in triumph.
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