Haydn’s The Seasons; Gabrieli Consort and Players Radio3 in Concert Monday 20th

[doversoul1]

Paul McCreesh conducts this period instrument performance with a combined choir and orchestra of over 170 performers and a line-up of leading British soloists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07gnc3n

I was expected to read something like;
….one to a part as Paul McCreesh is well known…
or some such.

This sounds intriguing too:
Sung in Paul McCreesh's new English translation

[Flosshilde]

Paul McCreesh conducts this period instrument performance with a combined choir and orchestra of over 170 performers and a line-up of leading British soloists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07gnc3n

I was expected to read something like;
….one to a part as Paul McCreesh is well known…
or some such.

The booklet accompanying the recording I have (Rene Jacobs & the Freiburger Barockorchester) refers to a performance in December 1801 that had "only 200 performers" - a choir of sixty, with, in the orchestra, the pairs of woodwind & the trumpets trebled, horns quadrupled, & trombones doubled.

This sounds intriguing too:
Sung in Paul McCreesh's new English translation

I wonder why? My booklet, again, refers to "the English version of the text in the Leipzig first edition, which van Swieten [who adapted Thomson's poem] himself drew up", which suggests that, as with The Creation, Haydn had the English text in mind as well as the German when he was writing the music.

[Pulcinella]

The booklet accompanying the recording I have (Rene Jacobs & the Freiburger Barockorchester)
...
refers to "the English version of the text in the Leipzig first edition, which van Swieten [who adapted Thomson's poem] himself drew up", which suggests that, as with The Creation, Haydn had the English text in mind as well as the German when he was writing the music.

The New Novello Choral Edition (which we are using in a concert next month) has a new English translation by Michael Pilkington. It includes a section on the translation in the preface. Apparently, van Swieten's own English translation of his German libretto, published in 1802, was quite unsingable, and in places almost unintelligible. Simrock immediately published a vocal score with a revised translation. This was used with a few minor adjustments by Clementi in his English language edition of 1813, and again by Alfred Novello in 1854. Novello's edition was revised in 1891, but the English was almost unaltered from Simrock.

The 'problems' seem to arise from the fact that van Swieten's libretto is based on (nach) Thomson's poem, but is not a translation of it. It has been maligned as a travesty of Thomson, but is what Haydn set. The New Novello Edition attempts to provide a translation of van Swieten's text that fits Haydn's music.

Presumably this is another attempt to fit words and music more closely.

Any wiser now?

[Flosshilde]

Yes, absolutely. Very informative

[Old Grumpy]

Anyone listening?

[Barbirollians]

I meant to but forgot - one for i-player

[Bryn]

I meant not to, as I hope to get better audio results from the iPlayer's Listen Again facility. It was a recording anyway, so the only way to have listened live would have been to attend the concert last Thursday.

[Tony Halstead]

I meant not to, as I hope to get better audio results from the iPlayer's Listen Again facility. It was a recording anyway, so the only way to have listened live would have been to attend the concert last Thursday.

My wife was playing in the concert, which took place at St John's Smith Square ( London). She said that with so many players and singers on stage it was very uncomfortably crowded and difficult to hear and to play well.
I have often thought that, although near-ideal for chamber music and chamber orchestras, this particular venue does have its drawbacks, on account of the fairly small stage area. The back-stage 'facilities' are minimal and, frankly, crude.
The 'Gabrielis', augmented by several Polish musicians, are currently performing and recording the work in Wroclaw, Poland ( formerly Breslau, Silesia, 'Germany').
On Thursday 23rd June, while we will be here, voting 'leave' or 'remain', they will still be in Wroclaw, doing 6 hours of recording in the morning and afternoon, then returning to Heathrow via 2 flights in the evening, hopefully getting back at about 10pm if there are no delays.

[Richard Barrett]

I wonder what is the rationale behind (presumably) going to a lot of trouble to assemble the forces and instruments used in early performances of a work and then using a new translation.

[Pulcinella]

I wonder what is the rationale behind (presumably) going to a lot of trouble to assemble the forces and instruments used in early performances of a work and then using a new translation.

Richard

See the comments in my post #3.
I think that van Swieten's 'back-translation' has always been deemed inadequate, and will have been part of the reason that The Seasons never had the popularity of The Creation (in English).

[jean]

The original on which it was based wasn't that great.

Judge for yourself here.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think that van Swieten's 'back-translation' has always been deemed inadequate, and will have been part of the reason that The Seasons never had the popularity of The Creation (in English).

But why do it in English at all?

[doversoul1]

Paul McCreesh talks quite a lot about the translation at the beginning of the programme.

[jean]

But why do it in English at all?

Because it was based on an English original, and Haydn would have expected it to be done in English as well as in German.

Only because he wasn't a native English speaker, he didn't realise what a dismal poem the original was.

[Richard Barrett]

The original on which it was based wasn't that great.

It is however what Haydn set... "improving" the poetry is a bit like saying Haydn "would have preferred" valved trumpets, metal-wound strings etc. which nobody sensible would attempt to assert.