Haydn’s The Seasons; Gabrieli Consort and Players Radio3 in Concert Monday 20th

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • doversoul1
    Ex Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 7132

    Haydn’s The Seasons; Gabrieli Consort and Players Radio3 in Concert Monday 20th

    Paul McCreesh conducts this period instrument performance with a combined choir and orchestra of over 170 performers and a line-up of leading British soloists
    Paul McCreesh conducts the Gabrieli Consort and Players in Haydn's The Seasons.


    I was expected to read something like;
    ….one to a part as Paul McCreesh is well known…
    or some such.

    This sounds intriguing too:
    Sung in Paul McCreesh's new English translation
  • Flosshilde
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 7988

    #2
    Originally posted by doversoul View Post
    Paul McCreesh conducts this period instrument performance with a combined choir and orchestra of over 170 performers and a line-up of leading British soloists
    Paul McCreesh conducts the Gabrieli Consort and Players in Haydn's The Seasons.


    I was expected to read something like;
    ….one to a part as Paul McCreesh is well known…
    or some such.
    The booklet accompanying the recording I have (Rene Jacobs & the Freiburger Barockorchester) refers to a performance in December 1801 that had "only 200 performers" - a choir of sixty, with, in the orchestra, the pairs of woodwind & the trumpets trebled, horns quadrupled, & trombones doubled.

    This sounds intriguing too:
    Sung in Paul McCreesh's new English translation
    I wonder why? My booklet, again, refers to "the English version of the text in the Leipzig first edition, which van Swieten [who adapted Thomson's poem] himself drew up", which suggests that, as with The Creation, Haydn had the English text in mind as well as the German when he was writing the music.

    Comment

    • Pulcinella
      Host
      • Feb 2014
      • 11058

      #3
      Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
      The booklet accompanying the recording I have (Rene Jacobs & the Freiburger Barockorchester)
      ...
      refers to "the English version of the text in the Leipzig first edition, which van Swieten [who adapted Thomson's poem] himself drew up", which suggests that, as with The Creation, Haydn had the English text in mind as well as the German when he was writing the music.
      The New Novello Choral Edition (which we are using in a concert next month) has a new English translation by Michael Pilkington. It includes a section on the translation in the preface. Apparently, van Swieten's own English translation of his German libretto, published in 1802, was quite unsingable, and in places almost unintelligible. Simrock immediately published a vocal score with a revised translation. This was used with a few minor adjustments by Clementi in his English language edition of 1813, and again by Alfred Novello in 1854. Novello's edition was revised in 1891, but the English was almost unaltered from Simrock.

      The 'problems' seem to arise from the fact that van Swieten's libretto is based on (nach) Thomson's poem, but is not a translation of it. It has been maligned as a travesty of Thomson, but is what Haydn set. The New Novello Edition attempts to provide a translation of van Swieten's text that fits Haydn's music.

      Presumably this is another attempt to fit words and music more closely.

      Any wiser now?

      Comment

      • Flosshilde
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 7988

        #4
        Yes, absolutely. Very informative

        Comment

        • Old Grumpy
          Full Member
          • Jan 2011
          • 3642

          #5
          Anyone listening?

          Comment

          • Barbirollians
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 11751

            #6
            I meant to but forgot - one for i-player

            Comment

            • Bryn
              Banned
              • Mar 2007
              • 24688

              #7
              I meant not to, as I hope to get better audio results from the iPlayer's Listen Again facility. It was a recording anyway, so the only way to have listened live would have been to attend the concert last Thursday.

              Comment

              • Tony Halstead
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1717

                #8
                Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                I meant not to, as I hope to get better audio results from the iPlayer's Listen Again facility. It was a recording anyway, so the only way to have listened live would have been to attend the concert last Thursday.
                My wife was playing in the concert, which took place at St John's Smith Square ( London). She said that with so many players and singers on stage it was very uncomfortably crowded and difficult to hear and to play well.
                I have often thought that, although near-ideal for chamber music and chamber orchestras, this particular venue does have its drawbacks, on account of the fairly small stage area. The back-stage 'facilities' are minimal and, frankly, crude.
                The 'Gabrielis', augmented by several Polish musicians, are currently performing and recording the work in Wroclaw, Poland ( formerly Breslau, Silesia, 'Germany').
                On Thursday 23rd June, while we will be here, voting 'leave' or 'remain', they will still be in Wroclaw, doing 6 hours of recording in the morning and afternoon, then returning to Heathrow via 2 flights in the evening, hopefully getting back at about 10pm if there are no delays.

                Comment

                • Richard Barrett
                  Guest
                  • Jan 2016
                  • 6259

                  #9
                  I wonder what is the rationale behind (presumably) going to a lot of trouble to assemble the forces and instruments used in early performances of a work and then using a new translation.

                  Comment

                  • Pulcinella
                    Host
                    • Feb 2014
                    • 11058

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                    I wonder what is the rationale behind (presumably) going to a lot of trouble to assemble the forces and instruments used in early performances of a work and then using a new translation.
                    Richard

                    See the comments in my post #3.
                    I think that van Swieten's 'back-translation' has always been deemed inadequate, and will have been part of the reason that The Seasons never had the popularity of The Creation (in English).

                    Comment

                    • jean
                      Late member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7100

                      #11
                      The original on which it was based wasn't that great.

                      Judge for yourself here.

                      Comment

                      • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                        Gone fishin'
                        • Sep 2011
                        • 30163

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                        I think that van Swieten's 'back-translation' has always been deemed inadequate, and will have been part of the reason that The Seasons never had the popularity of The Creation (in English).
                        But why do it in English at all?
                        [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                        Comment

                        • doversoul1
                          Ex Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 7132

                          #13
                          Paul McCreesh talks quite a lot about the translation at the beginning of the programme.

                          Comment

                          • jean
                            Late member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 7100

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                            But why do it in English at all?
                            Because it was based on an English original, and Haydn would have expected it to be done in English as well as in German.

                            Only because he wasn't a native English speaker, he didn't realise what a dismal poem the original was.

                            Comment

                            • Richard Barrett
                              Guest
                              • Jan 2016
                              • 6259

                              #15
                              Originally posted by jean View Post
                              The original on which it was based wasn't that great.
                              It is however what Haydn set... "improving" the poetry is a bit like saying Haydn "would have preferred" valved trumpets, metal-wound strings etc. which nobody sensible would attempt to assert.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X