Messiah, John Butt & Dunedin Consort

[mercia]

would one say 'Dettingen Te Deum' (its name) or The Dettingen Te Deum ?

the wikipedia article on Messiah scrupulously omits the definite article throughout, but the first sentence on DTD is "The Dettingen Te Deum (HWV 283) is a setting of the canticle Te Deum in D major composed by George Frideric Handel in 1743"

[jean]

(The) Messiah is the only piece that's been mentioned on this thread whose title is also that of a person.

(I use that term advisedly, as a person can be human or divine.)

But most titles applied to persons are not preceded by a definite article, unless of course they are very general (eg the King) and need further elaboration to denote someone specific (eg King Priam), at which point they lose the article.

For example, Handel's oratorios Saul and Solomon, and Honegger's King David for that matter, don't present an analogy to the present case.

Not sure if this helps.

[vinteuil]

(The) Messiah is the only piece that's been mentioned on this thread whose title is also that of a person.
.

... but here the 'title' is that of a - title, rather than of a person.

Jesus the person, the Messiah [the Anointed] his title.

Still awaiting any further thorts from fferney....

[jean]

I think the work should probably be called The the Messiah.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Still awaiting any further thorts from fferney....

Ooh - I'm done: it may not be "wrong" to refer to the work with the definite article (my childhood indoctrination means I cannot bring myself even to write it!) but it sets my teeth on edge to hear it - as with Twiglets of the Gods, Pagliacci, Opening of the Mouth ... by all means add to my pain, if you derive comfort by so doing.

[Nick Armstrong]

I think the work should probably be called The the Messiah.

If I may continue my solitary little Life of Brian riff, about an hour ago I happened to cycle past John Cleese who was loping along Newman Street, W1, looking for a cab...

I was tempted to shout "Jehovah!" (and not, of course, The Jehovah)



.

I'll go back to sleep now



PS The Israel in Egypt on R3 right now sounds a bit of alright!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The Israel in Egypt on R3 right now sounds a bit of alright!

Shouldn't this be on the Breakfast thread?

[Nick Armstrong]

Shouldn't this be on the Breakfast thread?

You've lost me there, o Alpine one.

[Flosshilde]

[I](I use that term advisedly, as a person can be human or divine.)

I thought 'person' was used by superior butlers (aren't they all?) to indicate someone who was rather less than human - "Sir, there is a person [said with an expression of extreme distaste] at the door."

[jean]

I was thinking more of the Trinity - you know, Three Persons and One God:



(Have mercy upon us, miserable sinners.)

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[ardcarp]

Loved post #23 Calibs.

Can I get it on a tea-towel?

[underthecountertenor]

Against the background of that post, ardy, and the ensuing discussion, you and others on this thread may be interested to read a comment by young harpsichordist Mahan Esfahani on facebook today (no indication of which performance generated his reaction... not necessarily the one in this concert/broadcast)




:biggrin

Mahan Esfahani on great form on Record Review, sparring delightfully with Anna Picard.

[Nick Armstrong]

Mahan Esfahani on great form on Record Review, sparring delightfully with Anna Picard.

As he said on the book of face this morning:

"Anna Picard and I will be on BBC Radio 3's "Record Review" today talking about new Czech releases of the past few months. As usual I will mouth off and continue my "offend the world" campaign while Anna says intelligent and considered things."

[vinteuil]

.



... I suppose I ought to keep my increasing irritation with Mahan Isfahani to myself....



.

[Tony Halstead]

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... I suppose I ought to keep my increasing irritation with Mahan Isfahani to myself....



.

Actually, I do think he has hit the nail on the head with his points 2,3, 5 ( sometimes), 6 and 7.