R3 Live in Concert 5/5/16 - RLPO/Manze in Vaughan Williams

[Nick Armstrong]

They've changed it!! Honestly - it named a tenor soloist this morning!!!

It did - I wouldn't've got quite so all excited if it hadn't.

Annoying - I too would have loved to hear the tenor version.

Or the clarinet version...

[Bryn]

Annoying - I too would have loved to hear the tenor version. ...

Allan Clayton, tenor

BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra
Andrew Manze, conductor

London, Proms 2014

[Tony Halstead]

Clarinet is the thing IMO.

No, no, we already hear far too much of the clarinet, its variously flat or sharp middle register's intonation intrusively spoiling the natural horn's tune using 'open harmonics' near the end of the movement in a sort of academically contrapuntal way ( the clarinet's noodling, that is).

[Nick Armstrong]

Allan Clayton, tenor

BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra
Andrew Manze, conductor

London, Proms 2014

Quite! I was there!

[Richard Barrett]

No, no, we already hear far too much of the clarinet, its variously flat or sharp middle register's intonation intrusively spoiling the natural horn's tune using 'open harmonics' near the end of the movement in a sort of academically contrapuntal way (the clarinet's noodling, that is).

You say that, but my problem with the voice (any voice) in this part is that it makes me cringe. There is of course a lot of clarinet already, but not offstage!

[Zucchini]

Allan Clayton, tenor

BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra
Andrew Manze, conductor

London, Proms 2014

Wonderful voice; he can do no wrong for me at the moment (except waste his talent on VW stuff)

[cloughie]

Have checked the Proms brochure - a photocopy always useful for DVD covers - and see that that Andrew Manze conducted the BBC Scottish SO in Symphonies, 4,5 and 6; Prom 46,
16 Aug 2012; three differently powerful works of the 1930s and 1940s.

During a reading and gardening session, this morning, I've done DVD transfers of Tony Palmer's, O Thou Transcendent, (2007) and add John Bridcut's Passions of VW in due course, before completing the trio with Ken Russell's South Bank Show with Ursula VW as an on - screen mentor throughout.

I like that idea, Stanley - what was the gardening to reading ratio and I admire your multi-tasking skills.

[Nick Armstrong]

Honestly - it DID!

A tenor is listed in Radio Times too....

[EdgeleyRob]

That's actually quite a naff introduction to the work, I thought: if I didn't know the piece and this was all I had in the way of introduction, I wouldn't've given it a chance!


Yes - I was immediately struck by the string sound in the extracts in the video, and wanted to hear more.

BUT - and I can't find my score, so I'm relying on memory here - the trumpet solo was using fingering: isn't he supposed to treat the instrument as a bugle and use natural harmonics at this point? (I can't help feeling I'm wrong, because RN is scrupulous about such matters.)

I've never seen a score of the Pastoral.
I believe though that it calls for a natural trumpet in E Flat,is that what you mean ferney or am I being a numpty.

[Bryn]

Honestly - it DID!

Saw it there myself, earlier today, and the Radio TImes site still shows Andrew Staples.

As to the mezzo-sop, a sop in the direction of a tenor, perhaps.

[EdgeleyRob]

Clarinet is the thing IMO.

The use of a clarinet is sanctioned in the score I think,I read somewhere that Andre Previn has performed it this way too.

[Richard Barrett]

I've never seen a score of the Pastoral.
I believe though that it calls for a natural trumpet in E Flat,is that what you mean ferney or am I being a numpty.

What generally happens is that the trumpeter uses the valve combination that puts his/her instrument into E flat, so that the seventh partial is heard in its "natural" tuning, around a sixth of a tone lower than equal temperament. However, in practice it's often not done like this. The last time I heard it (by the Belgrade Philharmonic, with offstage clarinet!) the trumpet player came up to me anxiously afterwards asking whether those notes sounded "right" since he'd used another valve combination to get what he thought sounded like the desired result. It was a bit too low actually... I found it quite amusing that suddenly I'd become an expert in the music of Vaughan Williams, albeit in a one-eyed king sort of way. It was a great performance by the way, as I think I posted here at the time - they didn't know how insipid it was "supposed" to sound! (I mean how insipid it often does sound)

[Richard Barrett]

The use of a clarinet is sanctioned in the score I think

It is indeed.

[EdgeleyRob]

What generally happens is that the trumpeter uses the valve combination that puts his/her instrument into E flat, so that the seventh partial is heard in its "natural" tuning, around a sixth of a tone lower than equal temperament. However, in practice it's often not done like this. The last time I heard it (by the Belgrade Philharmonic, with offstage clarinet!) the trumpet player came up to me anxiously afterwards asking whether those notes sounded "right" since he'd used another valve combination to get what he thought sounded like the desired result. It was a bit too low actually... I found it quite amusing that suddenly I'd become an expert in the music of Vaughan Williams, albeit in a one-eyed king sort of way. It was a great performance by the way, as I think I posted here at the time - they didn't know how insipid it was "supposed" to sound! (I mean how insipid it often does sound)

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to post this Richard.

[DracoM]

Cracking start: if that is the hallmark of the orchestra's VW symphony cycle, we are in for a treat!