Elgar Symphony No 1

[Beef Oven!]

Would that have mattered?

[Beef Oven!]

The Who?

If only Keith was still around.

[Beef Oven!]

Back on topic, I struggle a bit with Elgar's symphonies, although I really like Sinopoli's performances on CD with the Philharmonia. I don't go back to them very often. I think I may have seen Sinopoli & the Philharmonia perform the symphonies, but I can't be sure (sometimes when I come across old concert programmes I have no recollection of attending some of them. Some big names and works, too!).

Interestingly, many people whose opinions I respect very much (including some members of this forum), rate these works very highly, so I'm kept from writing them off.

One of the problems might be that I came to them a long time after I'd assimilated his Intro & Allegro, Pomp & Circs, Cello & Violin concertos, Enigma, In the South and a few other works. I love all the foregoing, but when it came to the symphonies, they did not click for me.

[ardcarp]

What an interesting thread! One thing I would love to know is how well a pre-1st War English orchestra would have coped with this symphony, or for that matter with The Enigma Variations. EE obviously knew the capabilities of instruments inside out, and he was surely pushing the boundaries to some extent. Oh to be a fly on the wall in, say 1910; or, even more fanciful, to know what EE would think of today's BBCSO and Sakari Oramo. I hope he would be beaming behind his mousetache.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What an interesting thread! One thing I would love to know is how well a pre-1st War English orchestra would have coped with this symphony, or for that matter with The Enigma Variations. EE obviously knew the capabilities of instruments inside out, and he was surely pushing the boundaries to some extent. Oh to be a fly on the wall in, say 1910; or, even more fanciful, to know what EE would think of today's BBCSO and Sakari Oramo. I hope he would be beaming behind his mousetache.

My mother's violin teacher played in the premiere.

[Maclintick]

Back on topic, I struggle a bit with Elgar's symphonies,

One of the problems might be that I came to them a long time after I'd assimilated his Intro & Allegro, Pomp & Circs, Cello & Violin concertos, Enigma, In the South and a few other works. I love all the foregoing, but when it came to the symphonies, they did not click for me.

I sympathise, in the sense that the Elgar symphonies are constricted by an Edwardian sensibility that's not easy to identify with nowadays, in a way that other magnificent works of his that you've already alluded to aren't -- Intro & Allegro, Enigma, In The South. If the symphonies are to be performed in this century, they need the sort of committed advocacy that Sakari Oramo provided last night, or Solti, among conductors of a previous generation.BTW, Elgar 1 & 2 are works that I love unreservedly, but I recognise that their zeitgeist is problematic for many of the current generation.

[ardcarp]

their zeitgeist is problematic for many of the current generation

It was certainly cool not to like Elgar in the 60s and 70s (I kept my affections well hidden) but I rather thought we had grown out of the 'problematic Edwardian zeitgeist' thing, at least as far as his orchestral works are concerned. Gerontius excepted, I can understand how the sentiment in some choral works (The Spirit of England?) might be difficult nowadays.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Gerontius excepted, I can understand how the sentiment in some choral works (The Spirit of England?) might be difficult nowadays.

"The Spirit of England"? Its title might lead you to consider it a jingoist work, but its message is universal. Elgar choral works that might be problematic are bits of The Crown of India and the ending of Caractacus. The Banner of St George and Coronation Ode aren't really jingoistic either.

[Nimrod]

Dear Alpensinfonie

Was the programme William Tell ov.; Bruch Violin no. 1 and the Elgar? 1st February 1968? I see that was the only FTH performance that year. Was it a cold cycle ride?! The 26th October 1969 saw me in the same venue; Italian Girl in Algiers; La Mer and Elgar 1. Quite unforgettable. I subsequently was in the audience at Kings Lynn in July 1970, another powerful experience not least hearing the 1st in a relatively small church ( as distinct from the FTH) where the music just washed over you in massive waves of sound.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Dear Alpensinfonie

Was the programme William Tell ov.; Bruch Violin no. 1 and the Elgar? 1st February 1968? I see that was the only FTH performance that year. Was it a cold cycle ride?! The 26th October 1969 saw me in the same venue; Italian Girl in Algiers; La Mer and Elgar 1. Quite unforgettable. I subsequently was in the audience at Kings Lynn in July 1970, another powerful experience not least hearing the 1st in a relatively small church ( as distinct from the FTH) where the music just washed over you in massive waves of sound.

You were there in Kings Lynn in 1970 - Sir John's last performance of the work? A privilege indeed.

It wasn't a cold cycle ride. I always cycled flat out, so kept warm, and it was quite a mild winter.

[cloughie]

You were there in Kings Lynn in 1970 - Sir John's last performance of the work? A privilege indeed.

Isn't that the one on on an Italian import CD with Kirsten Meyer singing the Sea Pictures?

[Barbirollians]

No idea but it was on a BBCLegends CD and it is fantastic .

[Pabmusic]

I sympathise, in the sense that the Elgar symphonies are constricted by an Edwardian sensibility that's not easy to identify with nowadays, in a way that other magnificent works of his that you've already alluded to aren't -- Intro & Allegro, Enigma, In The South. If the symphonies are to be performed in this century, they need the sort of committed advocacy that Sakari Oramo provided last night, or Solti, among conductors of a previous generation.BTW, Elgar 1 & 2 are works that I love unreservedly, but I recognise that their zeitgeist is problematic for many of the current generation.

In what ways do you see the symphonies as being 'restricted'? I see (always have done, too) EE's personality coming through clearly, warts and all. Was it his personality that was restricted?

[Pabmusic]

"The Spirit of England"? Its title might lead you to consider it a jingoist work, but its message is universal. Elgar choral works that might be problematic are bits of The Crown of India and the ending of Caractacus. The Banner of St George and Coronation Ode aren't really jingoistic either.

Absolutely.

[ahinton]

Were Elgar's symphonies "constricted by an Edwardian sensibility that's not easy to identify with nowadays" or susceptible to jingoistic expression, I don't think I could bear to listen to them, I really cannot find this anywhere in them and it makes itself manifest in very few of Elgar's works - Fringes of the Fleet, Caractacus and (especially) Crown of India as already mentioned and parts of Cockaigne. I've never even found the symphonies or other large scale works (Gerontius, the concertos, Falstaff et al) identifably English, let alone suffocated by any "Edwardian sensibility" other than that of Edward Elgar.

Just of of interest and assuming that it's OK to mention Elgar 3 here, does anyone see it as "constricted by an Edwardian sensibility", standing as it does more or less at the head of a new symphonic tradition getting under way in England more than two decades after the close of the Edwardian era?

Again, out of interest, what is it that, for you, at least, afflicts Elgar's symphonies by reason of the constriction of an "Edwardian sensibility" yet does not do so in the same ways in his other orchestral works? Just curious!