Webern, Brahms and Mahler/Cooke 10th Symphony - CBSO/Collon 31.3.16

[Nick Armstrong]

I caught most of the Mahler 10 performance which sounded wonderful to me, utterly involving - a young conductor on the way up, and rightly so from his pacing and shaping of this piece, with some excellent blended, sensitive playing from the CBSO. I shall certainly listen again, to the Mahler, and to catch the first half of the concert.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b074zny2

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

- a young conductor on the way up, and rightly so from his pacing and shaping of this piece, with some excellent blended, sensitive playing from the CBSO.

- AND remarkable clarity of texture and instrumental detail, too: exceptionally impressive.

[Nick Armstrong]

- AND remarkable clarity of texture and instrumental detail, too: exceptionally impressive.

Yes - gorgeous wasn't it. The woodwind playing shone through particularly for me - flutes, and a star playing bass clarinet! And the last movement so well judged, moving without being milked or sentimental.

[Bryn]

It took the audience so long to initiate the applause at the end, I wondered whether they had all gone home.

[Nick Armstrong]

It took the audience so long to initiate the applause at the end, I wondered whether they had all gone home.

I liked that too! If that had been in the RAH in about 4 months' time, there'd have been some loon yelping....

Do the CBSO issue 'own label' recordings? This would be a great candidate for release - not least the ease of editing out the applause...

[Richard Barrett]

This thread reminds me that I was reading an interesting piece of speculative musicology the other day by Veronika Lenz, a scholar known to at least some members here, that the real reason why Mahler's 10th symphony wasn't completed was that he lost interest, being clandestinely busy at the time on his 11th, which according to Prof Lenz actually was finished, and has hitherto been known under another title. As is well known, in 1922 the composer Ernst Krenek met Mahler's widow Alma and soon afterwards married her daughter Anna. Around this time he is supposed to have completed his own 2nd symphony (dedicated to Anna Mahler) which as can easily be heard shows Mahler's strong influence but in a more advanced atonal style. This is hardly surprising, according to Prof Lenz, since this work is none other than Mahler's 11th symphony which had been lying unnoticed in a pile of his papers entrusted to Alma until rediscovered by Krenek and passed off as his own work. Needless to say his marriage to Anna ended after less than a year, when she found out about this act of plagiarism, though it remains a mystery why she never went public with the information (she lived until 1988 and was married five times in all).

[ahinton]

This thread reminds me that I was reading an interesting piece of speculative musicology the other day by Veronika Lenz, a scholar known to at least some members here, that the real reason why Mahler's 10th symphony wasn't completed was that he lost interest, being clandestinely busy at the time on his 11th, which according to Prof Lenz actually was finished, and has hitherto been known under another title. As is well known, in 1922 the composer Ernst Krenek met Mahler's widow Alma and soon afterwards married her daughter Anna. Around this time he is supposed to have completed his own 2nd symphony (dedicated to Anna Mahler) which as can easily be heard shows Mahler's strong influence but in a more advanced atonal style. This is hardly surprising, according to Prof Lenz, since this work is none other than Mahler's 11th symphony which had been lying unnoticed in a pile of his papers entrusted to Alma until rediscovered by Krenek and passed off as his own work. Needless to say his marriage to Anna ended after less than a year, when she found out about this act of plagiarism, though it remains a mystery why she never went public with the information (she lived until 1988 and was married five times in all).

It's an intriguing thought, however far-fetched it might seem. Strange, though, that the middle one of what we know of as Krenek's first three symphonies, all written within the space of a couple of years or so during his 20s, would in actuality be that of another far more widely known Austrian composer; stranger still, perhaps, that so prolific a composer would pass off what must be his largest scale piece (besides a couple of stage works) as his own if it were not so. One might wonder whether Cooke and Goldschmidt were - and frères Matthews are - unaware of this or that any or all of them knew/know about it but chose to turn a blind eye and deaf ear to it.

That said, though, given that Busoni would have been aware of Mahler's work and Rachmaninoff actually performed his third piano concerto under Mahler's direction, one might also wonder about their parts in this, given ther joint birthday today...

[ahinton]

It took the audience so long to initiate the applause at the end, I wondered whether they had all gone home.

Something similar happened - and doubtless for not dissimilar reasons - following a remarkable performance of the composer's Ninth Symphony some years ago, conducted by Abbado.

[Tevot]

This thread reminds me that I was reading an interesting piece of speculative musicology the other day by Veronika Lenz, a scholar known to at least some members here, that the real reason why Mahler's 10th symphony wasn't completed was that he lost interest, being clandestinely busy at the time on his 11th, which according to Prof Lenz actually was finished, and has hitherto been known under another title. As is well known, in 1922 the composer Ernst Krenek met Mahler's widow Alma and soon afterwards married her daughter Anna. Around this time he is supposed to have completed his own 2nd symphony (dedicated to Anna Mahler) which as can easily be heard shows Mahler's strong influence but in a more advanced atonal style. This is hardly surprising, according to Prof Lenz, since this work is none other than Mahler's 11th symphony which had been lying unnoticed in a pile of his papers entrusted to Alma until rediscovered by Krenek and passed off as his own work. Needless to say his marriage to Anna ended after less than a year, when she found out about this act of plagiarism, though it remains a mystery why she never went public with the information (she lived until 1988 and was married five times in all).

As this is April Fools Day Richard I assume you are a pranker (sic) unless a link is provided

Funnily enough I heard some of this concert this afternoon in non contact time - firstly the Alma Mahler songs aired during the interval and then the Brahms Choral Songs which alas I found pedestrian and anonymous...

I'll certainly listen to the Mr Mahler ( ) as the Tenth means a lot to me and was the very first of his symphonies I ever saw live ( Halle; Skrowaczewski; / St George's Hall Bradford / way back in the day )

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[vinteuil]

As is well known, in 1922 the composer Ernst Krenek met Mahler's widow Alma and soon afterwards married her daughter Anna. Around this time he is supposed to have completed his own 2nd symphony (dedicated to Anna Mahler) which as can easily be heard shows Mahler's strong influence but in a more advanced atonal style. This is hardly surprising, according to Prof Lenz, since this work is none other than Mahler's 11th symphony which had been lying unnoticed in a pile of his papers entrusted to Alma all).

... I thought it had already been established that Alma Magdalena Mahler wrote all the works anyway.

[ahinton]

... I thought it had already been established that Alma Magdalena Mahler wrote all the works anyway.

Dougal!
Beamish!
You'll have had your Par-tea-ta...

[ahinton]

As this is April Fools Day Richard I assume you are a pranker (sic) unless a link is provided

A link? Just try finding any information on Prof Lenz and her musicological researches!

Good prank, though, you must admit!

[vinteuil]

Just try finding any information on Prof Lenz and her musicological researches!

... Veronika Lenz?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQlsmw4Yhr4

[ahinton]

... Veronika Lenz?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQlsmw4Yhr4

Yes, I know about that, of course, but it's hardly the same thing, is it?!

[Richard Barrett]

... Veronika Lenz?

You may think that Prof Lenz is a fictitious character named after a Comedian Harmonists song, but it so happens that I was interviewed by her in 2005, the results of which may be accessed here.