Radio 3 in Concert 11.03.2016 - Bach, Handel, Vivaldi, Biber

[Maclintick]

A Polish band. See here, ## 382-6.

(Going to see Rachel Podger in Swansea tomorrow - Handel, Bach, Vivaldi, Biber - but with BBC NOW, not this lot )

Listening to this concert now, & hoping Richard is enjoying it more than I am via R3. Apart from fairly ropey string-playing throughout, the piccolo trumpet in Brandenburg 2 was shockingly bad, & I didn't feel for a moment that any of the players (a) had their heart in it or (b) were relishing the experience. Perhaps this performance exposes a gulf between British practitioners of baroque music & their continental counterparts, rather as their footballing equivalents Chelsea & Tottenham suffered earlier in the week against superior opposition from PSG & Borussia Dortmund. Teamsaint may have a view on this...

( Referee ! For some reason the moderators have decided that I started this thread, moving my original post in reply to Richard Tarleton on the "What baroque/Early music are you listening to ?"
thread into pole position here. Arrant misrepresentation !)

[teamsaint]

Listening to this concert now, & hoping Richard is enjoying it more than I am via R3. Apart from fairly ropey string-playing throughout, the piccolo trumpet in Brandenburg 2 was shockingly bad, & I didn't feel for a moment that any of the players (a) had their heart in it or (b) were relishing the experience. Perhaps this performance exposes a gulf between British practitioners of baroque music & their continental counterparts, rather as their footballing equivalents Chelsea & Tottenham suffered earlier in the week against superior opposition from PSG & Borussia Dortmund. Teamsaint may have a view on this...

haven't heard the concert or seen the games, Mac, so can't really comment , other than to ask if perhaps the BBCNOW , like Spurs, put out a second string , ( all the first team up in London for a night out before the rugby?)

Or are you suggesting that the Welsh wizards can't compete financially against even bigger spending French outfits?

Anyway, lets hope RT is having a good evening of it.

[jean]

...the piccolo trumpet in Brandenburg 2 was shockingly bad...

I know very little about brass playing, and when something sounds that bad, I always think there must be a reason.

Do you mean there wasn't?

[oddoneout]

Listening to this concert now, & hoping Richard is enjoying it more than I am via R3. Apart from fairly ropey string-playing throughout, the piccolo trumpet in Brandenburg 2 was shockingly bad, & I didn't feel for a moment that any of the players (a) had their heart in it or (b) were relishing the experience. .

I chose to listen to this rather than watch the violin programme on BBC4 and wasn't impressed but at the point the trumpet appeared I gave up and switched off( and joined the archive violinists 10 mins in). Surely in this day and age it isn't necessary for that sort of 'playing'. Perhaps the instrument had some sort of major breakdown and became unplayable - in which case stop the performance and try and sort something out?

[Richard Tarleton]

Radio 3 in Concert 11.03.2016 - Bach, Handel, Vivaldi, Biber

Anyone listen to this? We were in the hall - terrific playing and conducting from Rachel Podger and a cut-down BBC NOW. But I'd love to know how movements 1 and 3 of 2nd Brandenburg came across on the radio, Mrs T and I looked at eachother in alarm at the solo trumpet part, I'd be grateful for an expert opinion. Hornspieler, your sort of thing? He was playing something that looked like this.

Other than that - it took Rachel most of the first half to house-train part of the audience which began inter-movement clapping after the first bit of the Handel Concerto Grosso and continued into the Bach A minor violin concerto - when increasingly tense smiles failed she had to put her finger to her lips. Also I had to give a sharp prod to a woman two rows in front who began filming the concert on her phone held over her head, she got the message quite quickly

[Maclintick]

I know very little about brass playing, and when something sounds that bad, I always think there must be a reason.

Do you mean there wasn't?

I've no idea, but of course there could be many reasons, extreme temperatures in the performing venue being one. The player may have been taken ill at the last moment, and/or been subbed by another player off the bench who wasn't really up to the task. I suppose, as Oddoneout speculates, it's possible the instrument may have suffered some ruinous malfunction.

[BBMmk2]

A Polish band. See here, ## 382-6.

(Going to see Rachel Podger in Swansea tomorrow - Handel, Bach, Vivaldi, Biber - but with BBC NOW, not this lot )

Heard this on BBC R3 last evening, when I came back from College. A most excellent performance. if you heard the interval talk with RP, you would haver heard that being non-HIPP, they did their best in trying to evoke a baroque feel, which, imo, I think they did very well indeed. What's wrong with non-HIPP performances, done with good taste, like this was, I think is much applauded.

[jean]

...Surely in this day and age it isn't necessary for that sort of 'playing'...

I sort of assume they're playing a valveless instrument in a HIPP sort of way, abjuring this day and age altogether...but what do I know?

(Just cross-posted with BBM - but surely 'non-HIPP' was exactly what the trumpet wasn't?)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What's wrong with non-HIPP performances, done with good taste, like this was, I think is much applauded.

BBM, be careful - you'll be burnt at the stake. I'll probably be there with you.

[jean]

But it's the trumpet-playing that's controversial here - and exactly not because it was un-HIPP.

What did you think?

[Richard Barrett]

the trumpet

Let's get this straight. (a) The trumpet played in this broadcast was a valved instrument (nothing whatsoever to do with HIPP) which in theory makes playing the solo part in the second Brandenburg Concerto easier than using the natural trumpet it was written for. Not in this case it seems. (b) HIPP has nothing to do with "abjuring this day and age", it's the most contemporary way of performing baroque music, as opposed to the older early 20th century way of doing it which is a bastard child of 18th century notes and 19th century techniques.

[Richard Barrett]

stop the performance and try and sort something out?

I doubt that would have improved matters. It's hard to tell from listening whether the instrument or the player was at fault, or both, but whichever it was there wouldn't be any quick way of fixing it, especially within the time restrictions of a live broadcast.

[arthroceph]

I listened to the broadcast, and have to say, Brandenburg No. 2 and the wayward trumpeter had a huge impact ... both positive and negative. Generally, the Brandenburg's have bored me .. but my ears definitely pricked up on this performance. The mike was extremely close to the trumpet! It stultified me, and immediately I didn't want to listen to the live performance. From a philosophical point of view, I'm deeply interested in the difference between live-listening and recording-listening. It also showed up how difficult the trumpet part is. So I'll save further comments till I "listen again".

[Richard Tarleton]

"Shockingly bad" says it. It sounded terrible in the hall. We were too far away to read the facial expressions of his fellow-soloists, or to lip-read whatever he said to them, whether apology or "that went well!" I have no idea. As my wife said, "I wouldn't want to get up there and try it, would you?", but we might as well have done.

The Handel was spoilt by the audience, Ms Podger's A minor concerto in the first half and the Double in the second were fine, with her gorgeous playing (I hope Maclintick didn't mean her, perhaps the mics were picking up things we couldn't hear from Row T ) - the BBC NOW's Lesley Hatfield whose playing I admire took the part that comes in first in the Double..... The Biber a bit of fun but neither here nor there really, in the context, and the Vivaldi was...Vivaldi. It was not a typical, audience for the Brangwyn Hall, I'd say, and perhaps this affected the players? When John Lill played not too long ago you could have heard a pin drop throughout, and he thanked the audience afterwards.

[Nick Armstrong]

All posts of which I'm aware about this concert now moved to this thread, plus a couple of deletions to tidy up and remove duplication. Hope this now works

It now merely remains for me to hear what this poor trumpeter got up to....