International Women's Day: Tuesday 8 March

[jean]

Or, to look at it another way, Tippsy is listening to what's readily available.

A lot of music by women is not readily available.

And a lot of music that women might have written they never did, because of extra-musical factors that stifled their aspirations

If Tippsy is happy with this situation, fine; but he shouldn't pretend that his acceptance of the status quo isn't itself an agenda.

[P. G. Tipps]

I'm sure it is. But that in fact makes you at least as "agenda-driven" as anyone else, whether you see it that way or not. The fact that you refuse to think about such issues doesn't render them nonexistent. You're often to be seen extolling the virtues of the music of Anton Bruckner - a white male heterosexual Catholic of somewhat anachronistic views, just like you. Coincidence?

Well, as you will know much better than myself, there have been many 'white male heterosexual Catholic' composers in the history of music. Shocking, I know .... some of whose music I like better than others .... then there are those whose output leaves me completely cold. So, yes, I guess the answer to your question is a resounding and uncompromising 'YES'! As for 'anachronistic views' that suggests a mind firmly closed rather than receptively open, if you don't mind me making such an obvious observation!

Curiously you refer to me as 'refusing to think' about the issue we are discussing here, despite you challenging my views on the very same issue. I suspect what you really mean is that you yourself refuse to countenance anything that conflicts with your very own, and admittedly quite open and above board, personal political agenda. Not that you are alone in that, by any means!

If you, in turn, refer to me as having my own agenda in simply pointing out others' clear agendas then maybe that is again something on which we can all agree even if we all end up agreeing on nothing else?

[ahinton]

Well, as you will know much better than myself, there have been many 'white male heterosexual Catholic' composers in the history of music. Shocking, I know .... some of whose music I like better than others .... then there are those whose output leaves me completely cold. So, yes, I guess the answer to your question is a resounding and uncompromising 'YES'! As for 'anachronistic views' that suggests a mind firmly closed rather than receptively open, if you don't mind me making such an obvious observation!

Curiously you refer to me as 'refusing to think' about the issue we are discussing here, despite you challenging my views on the very same issue. I suspect what you really mean is that you yourself refuse to countenance anything that conflicts with your very own, and admittedly quite open and above board, personal political agenda. Not that you are alone in that, by any means!

If you, in turn, refer to me as having my own agenda in simply pointing out others' clear agendas then maybe that is again something on which we can all agree even if we all end up agreeing on nothing else?

I think that the two things on which all of us (except you) can agree is the consistency of your wilful avoidance of the issues and your unwillingness to give them due credence and address them as they deserve.

Anachronistic views do indeed suggest a mind firmly closed rather than receptively open and your posts on the subject under discussion here clearly identify yours as one such, if you don't mind me making such an obvious observation!

Richard Barrett's challenging of your statements here has nothing to do with any "personal political agenda" on his part, not least because that is not the subject of this thread and, just as he has not hung such an agenda onto the subject of this thread in his posts within it, you have made a point of trying to avoid discussing that subject.

[jean]

I suggest we scrub the word 'agenda' altogether, and see if we can't get on better without it.

[ahinton]

I suggest we scrub the word 'agenda' altogether, and see if we can't get on better without it.

The only legitimate "agenda" here is to make serious and considered contributions to discussion of the thread topic, which is something that our resident teaboy avoids, preferring instead to post as he has done which appeares to have achieved little beyond the revelation of the dyed-in-the-wool attitudes that purportedly pass for his views thereon.

[P. G. Tipps]

I suggest we scrub the word 'agenda' altogether, and see if we can't get on better without it.

I think that sums up certain members' attitudes/agendas better than i ever could!

Thank you, jean!

[jean]

I don't know what you're thanking me for exactly, Tippsy.

An 'agenda' is nothing more than a list of things that need to be done, the sheet of paper thrust in front of you when you attend a meeting. The discussion that anyone who starts a thread on a board like this hopes will develop.

Unfortunately the word has acquired a secondary, pejorative meaning as something underhand, something directed by political motivations of which the speaker disapproves.

You introduced the word onto this thread in that sense, when you expressed the view that International Women's Day was

...nothing less than an elitist, socio-political agenda at worst....

Which fairly wrecked the discussion.

People who write that sort of thing rarely feel the need to explain what they mean - like Political Correctness, the words by themselves are thought to be enough, though to be sure they say nothing at all.

.

[P. G. Tipps]

I don't know what you're thanking me for exactly, Tippsy.

An 'agenda' is nothing more than a list of things that need to
be done, the sheet of paper thrust in front of you when to attend a meeting. What any thread has its aim.

It's acquired a secondary, pejorative meaning as aething underhand, something directed by political motivations of which the speaker disapproves.

You introduced it onto this thread in that sense, and it's fairly wrecked the discussion. But it was your doing.

Well I do agree it might well have wrecked an agenda-driven discussion such as you describe, Jeanie!

I certainly do not see any need to apologise for that, but maybe ahinton will now demand that I do ... ?

Meanwhile the discussion can continue in the manner anyone else, including yourself, wishes ... !

[jean]

People who write that sort of thing rarely feel the need to explain what they mean - like Political Correctness, the words by themselves are thought to be enough, though to be sure they say nothing at all.

And so it proved.

...an agenda-driven discussion...

Which is what, exactly?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder if he means "a gender-driven discussion"?

[Bryn]

I wonder if he means "a gender-driven discussion"?

Ah, a homophonic comment.

[Serial_Apologist]

Ah, a homophonic comment.

Pretty monodic, if you ask me for a one-liner - not much harmony in this discussion!

[ahinton]

I certainly do not see any need to apologise for that, but maybe ahinton will now demand that I do ... ?

No.

Hole.

Dig.

Deeper.

Meanwhile, on planet earth, ##175, 176 & 177 - brilliant!

[doversoul1]

Sorry to be a bore but does anyone have any (positive) thoughts on the music they heard?

I think jean mentions this somewhere unthread:

2:31 AM
Walpurgis, Maria Antonia (1724-1780)
Sinfonia from 'Talestri, regina delle Amazzoni' - Dramma per musica
Batzdorfer Hofkapelle, Tobias Schade (harpsichord/director)
2:37 AM
Walpurgis, Maria Antonia (1724-1780) [text Walpurgis]
Talestri, regina delle amazzoni - excerpts
Christine Wolff (soprano) , Johanna Stojkovic (soprano) , Marilia Vargas (soprano) , Ulrike Bartsch (soprano), Batzdorfer Hofkapelle, Tobias Schade (harpsichord/director)

I thought this was rather good. No, she is no Handel but nor are a lot of (most, for that matter) male Baroque opera composers.

[Richard Barrett]

she is no Handel but nor are a lot of (most, for that matter) male Baroque opera composers.

It's not very Baroque in date or style, though, is it? It relies very heavily on stock galant materials like the "Trommelbass" repeated notes. On the other hand the opera was highly praised in its time, as can be seen in this interesting article:

http://www.academia.edu/2041544/Maria_Antonia_of_Saxony_and_the_Emergence_of_Music_Analysis_in_Opera_Criticism_Cambridge_Opera_Journal_25_1_2013_37-73